Get over it... but complain a bit first.

[AmarilloByMorning]

Regrettably, I cannot coax my Droid to quote from the LROE Celebration. However, Willie suggested we initiate a thread to debate the Eagles' more "controversial" tracks...

Shall we? Take umbrage with Get Over It? Dirty Laundry? Business as Usual? Something else? Air your grievances!

As the resident legal buff, may I take the liberty of inserting this prelude. By joining this thread, you assert that you understand:

1. When someone posts a counterpoint to your own argument, they do not harbor any hidden animosity toward you; they simply wish to express a contrary opinion. You know, like Felder and Frey, but without the undercurrent of animosity and impending doom. Or the guitar-smashing. Okay, rubbish example. Bottom line: no need to apologize forty thousand times, I hereby declare a truce on all fronts.

2. We're all Eagles fans here. Nobody hates Henley or Frey, so no need to raise your hackles and defend them rabidly.

3. A Møøse once bit my sister.

4. Nevermind that last bit, I just sacked myself. Go!

[sodascouts]

2. We're all Eagles fans here. Nobody hates Henley or Frey

Speak for yourself. I despise the Eagles virulently and find Henley and Frey especially despicable. Indeed, I think close examination of certain passages of Revelation reveals a close resemblance between Glenn Frey and the Antichrist.:fear:

[MikeA]

Aieeeeeee! Have I stepped into the Twilight Zone???????

[sodascouts]

Just having a little fun, obviously, but in truth discussions of controversial songs can get quite heated. Still, I've never been afraid of a little debate, as those who have been around this board long enough can attest. ;)

[Freypower]

I'd like to hear about the moose who bit ABM's sister...:hilarious:

The line comes from the opening credits of Monty Python & the Holy Grail.

I am all for discussing 'controversial songs' but does this mean controversial lyrics or proclaiming that a song which many people like is not a favourite of yours (prime example for me is Love Will Keep Us Alive).

[MikeA]

I'm all for it. But someone else will have to initiate the subject matter. Then I can go study it. Now if y'all want to discuss controversial chord progressions in Eagles songs, I'm so all down for that!

I remember one progression that the Beatles used....nothing but the chord of "C" for the entire song. Can't remember the song though but remember the progression <LOL>

[Scarlet Sun]

I remember one progression that the Beatles used....nothing but the chord of "C" for the entire song. Can't remember the song though but remember the progression <LOL>
Tomorrow Never Knows

[TimothyBFan]

When I mentioned a possible new thread for this, I was speaking of the lyrics FP.

I will get back to this thread soon but for now I will just say some of my favorite Eagles songs are one that some would call controversial. To name a few...

Get Over It
King Of Hollywood
Dirty Laundry
Frail Grasp Of The Big Picture

I would imagine even songs like Hotel California or Fast Company could be considered for that title by some.

Personally, it takes a heck of a lot to shock me so I'm not a bit "offended" by lyrics of any kind by anyone. I'm sure tho, that some subject matters or lyrics to some Eagles songs can be considered that. Look at the long discussion we had regarding KOH when we were doing the Long Run survivor.

[MikeA]

Yeah, THAT was is Scarlet Sun "Tomorrow Never Knows". I just remembered it was one freaky song!

Willie, you would be negligent NOT to include "Hotel California" at least as an "honorable mention" in any list of controversial lyrics. I've actually heard ministers speaking out on the "real meanings" of the lyrics of that song. But on the other hand, that song has been analyzed to death both here and elsewhere.

[Ive always been a dreamer]

Wow - There are a ton of controversial lyrics in Eagles songs depending on how you choose to interpret them. I can remember back in the day that lines such "I've been searching for the daughter of the devil himself" and "How come you still got his gun in your hand?" created quite a bit of "discussion". Now days we just don't even notice some of the lyrics that created controversy in the '70's. Even from the beginning of the Eagles, some folks complained about the innuendo of some of the lines in Take It Easy (open up, I'm climbin' in), Witchy Woman (rock you in the nighttime 'til your skin turns red), and Peaceful Easy Feeling (I wanna sleep with you in the desert tonight). These were all pretty bold for that time. One, in particular, that I remember my mom finding offensive was "every girl's a fork in the road" from Good Day In Hell. Of course, she wasn't even crazy about the title of the song. :wink:

[TimothyBFan]

Just heard Life In The Fast Lane. How did I not think of that one earlier? All the drug & sex references there are definitely up for discussion in this topic.

"they had one thing in common, they were good in bed"
"they knew all the right people, they took all the right pills"
"there were lines on the mirror"


I have to think we aren't considering just songs that may be considered controversial but lyrics that may be offensive to some also?

[sodascouts]

Well, I see a difference between "controversial" and "offensive" although certainly the two can cross. I got the idea it was more about discussing controversial issues from the songs rather than listing lyrics that other people are offended by, unless you're hoping to debate whether or not something is truly offensive. There are some lyrics I'm not comfortable with (for instance, the cussing in LITFL, the implication that it's justified to assault a woman to the point where she has to be hospitalized if she's been cheating on you in Who's Been Sleeping in My Bed, etc) but I'm more conservative than most folks here, and I know better than to try to argue that someone "should" be offended when they're not.

Still, it's ABM's thread, she can make the rules!

[Ive always been a dreamer]

To me if something offends someone, then by extension, wouldn't that make it controversial? At least, that's the way I see it.

[TimothyBFan]

Point taken but I'm sure a lot of people may think that if something is controversial it is also offensive? I think they pretty much go hand in hand. Or am I reading more into "controversial"?

I'm thinking as Dreamer said back in the 70s some of those lyrics were "controversial". I'm sure the lyrics for Life In the Fast Lane were pretty racy and considered offensive which I would think made it controversial for that time.

I guess I'm thinking if the lyrics are offensive, it would be considered controversial also. JMO

ETA: I was typing the same time Dreamer was posting. Great minds huh? :hilarious:

[sodascouts]

As I said, they can cross, but I thought (unless I misunderstood because I can't speak for ABM) that this thread was supposed to be about debate... and like I said, trying to convince someone a lyric is offensive (or vice versa) doesn't work too well.

When I said they're not the same, here's what I meant:

If something is called "offensive," it's automatically controversial as well.
If something is called "controversial," however, it's not automatically offensive.

That's all I was trying to say. :)

ETA: Our first controversy: What to discuss in this thread! We're off to a great start! lol

[Ive always been a dreamer]

Well - I certainly didn't intend to start a controversy with my post. I will be glad to delete it if I offended anyone. :wink:

[sodascouts]

Stop hating on me. I'm entitled to my opinion!

;)

[Ive always been a dreamer]

Of course you are as long as it agrees with everyone elses! :thumbsup:

[MikeA]

Dang....can't even get an agreement on the definition of Controversy

Controversy is a state of prolonged public dispute or debate, usually concerning a matter of opinion.

I usually think of Controversy as being that state in which there are a significant number of people who disagree with the opinions of another significant number of people.

In all the definitions I read, I never saw it used as a synonym of "offense" but rather a definition of a difference of opinion. It only takes one person to be offended. If you have 10,000 Republicans at a convention and one Democrat and the Democrat doesn't agree with the nomination, does that constitute a controversy? YES! The Democrat is by being at the Republican Convention a Controversy! Probably going to be offensive to some of the Republicans too.

For me, I am offended by references to violence a lot more than to references to sex or drugs....but I'm pretty open minded.

Still, I recognize that my opinions might be considered "controversial" to some. And I also admit that some of the opinions others might have may be controversial to me and still not be offensive to me. Anything I don't agree with is controversial but not everything that I deem controversial is offensive to me.

For instance: Parents forcing their children to go to Football Games is controversial (to me) when the child doesn't want to go but it isn't offensive to me. I don't believe that children should just automatically dictate the actions of the Mother and Father in every situation. But I think it controversial and offensive if parents force their children to PLAY football if they do not want to play!

But, in MUSICAL LYRICS it gets closer to home. I think that if one person finds something in lyrics that (s)he thinks is controversial and even one person disagrees, then Controversial it is. Even if we don't know what categorizes something as Controversial!

So, I think personally that if anything is listed as controversial to someone then I'll go along with it. The degree to which I'll go along with it will depend on how badly it offends me <LOL>

[Freypower]

I find the lyrics of Life In The Fast Lane extremely clever with the use of sexual innuendo (see also Led Zeppelin's Trampled Under Foot) particularly 'faster, faster, the lights are turning red'. I love that line. I also love the lines to which Soda has an objection (we've been up & down that highway/haven't seen a goddamn thing) because they sum up so perfectly the emptiness of the couple's lives. However if people are uncomfortable with those lines that is fair enough. But overall, LITFL is one of the best lyrics ever written, for me.

I do agree with Soda about Who's Been Sleeping In My Bed (although Glenn didn't write it). The song takes a very murky turn indeed.

[AmarilloByMorning]

Soda nailed it - with the post I merely wished to instigate discussion of some variant, given how much I enjoy the Survivor games, and pursuant to Willie's comment.

For instance... Business as Usual bothers me tremendously, as they assert to criticize corporate organizations, whilst forcing fans to purchase the cd from the vendor who would ensure them the maximum profit margin.

And Get Over It. Really? A) don't a great many of Henley's tunes qualify for admonishment according to the criteria outlined in the lyrics? Long Road Out of Eden, Grasp on the Big Picture, even Dirty Laundry? Isn't the last one a four-minute whine, despite my unequivocal affinity for it? And B) kill all the lawyers? This from the band who litigates at the mere suggestion of something that a judge in some circuit somewhere could feasibly perceive as a transgression? And ps, lawyers are businessmen like everyone else. If someone submits a ten thousand dollar retainer, what are you to do? Take the case, obviously, as you wish to cultivate a living. The problem actually involves the absolute absence of common sense (wow, they serve coffee hot? Who knew?) and human decency/morality. Lawyers equate white blood cells. Do they sometimes wreak more havoc than they rectify? Certainly. But if someone hadn't inflicted an injury for sport, they would want for business, and disappear. (Obviously discounting ambulance chasers and the nimwits who advertise on telly and overcharge, etc... bad seeds in every profession.)

Anyway. Just attempting to rouse discussion. Drag the topic in every/any direction you like. :)

[sodascouts]

Business as Usual bothers me tremendously, as they assert to criticize corporate organizations, whilst forcing fans to purchase the cd from the vendor who would ensure them the maximum profit margin.

Most of that song seems directed externally, true, but I believe a couple lines from that song recognize the fact that the Eagles themselves are a corporation and thus as caught up in the capitalist mentality as any other corporate entity.

For instance, when Don says "I thought I'd be above it all by now, in some country garden in the shade... but it's business as usual" - perhaps that recognizes that despite his wish for a simpler life, he too has a tendency to look at his art and see dollar signs. (This tendency is evinced by several comments he's made emphasizing that music is a business, and that if musicians don't see profits, they simply will stop making music... which can be interpreted as "the purpose of making music is to make money"). Now, I don't believe money is all Don or the Eagles care about - I respect their artistry - but as I said, money is brought up again and again in Don's interviews.

To further support the idea that he might see himself and the Eagles as participating in "business as usual" and therefore acknowledging his own complicity: The lyric "You try to do good, but business as usual turns your heart into wood." Additionally, at the end of the song "A band of renown" is specifically brought up after "Feel like walking away." It ends with "Business as usual is breaking me down" and repeats "breaking me down."

These seem to communicate a tortured attitude, where one knows one is being greedy but is unable to turn away from temptation. In Don's case, that temptation gets continually shoved in his face by people with a vested interest in seeing Don and the Eagles make the most money possible. Those people are "breaking [him] down."

Perhaps some part of the bitterness and anger in the song, so effectively communicated by his vocal, is directed at himself and his own weakness in allowing himself to be sucked into the corporate machine.

If so, such self-awareness deflects accusations of hypocrisy.

(Side note: I made a video of the song (http://www.myspace.com/eaglesonlinecentral/videos/video/38098130) which reflects my personal interpretation it. And yes, it was taken down from YouTube.)

[Ive always been a dreamer]

Still not quite clear on what this thread is supposed to be about, but what the hell. ABM said to drag it in any direction we want, so I will. I totally agree with Soda's interpretation of Business As Usual. I like the song a lot and can really relate to it. In a world where money seems to be everything, I think it's a dilemma that many of us find ourselves in. For example, there are lots of things that I strongly dislike about corporate America. However, I am dependent on it for many things in my life, including my job. As you said ABM, even our legal system has turned into a business. It's come to the point where justice is only available to the wealthy. So while we have to tolerate this 'business as usual', it doesn't mean we have to like it. IMO, that's all Don is doing here is voicing his displeasure, even though he is a participant. I'm sure when these guys were young and just starting out in the music business, they never envisioned themselves as CEOs of a multi-million dollar corporate conglomerate, but that's basically what they've turned into.

[Ive always been a dreamer]

I also love the lines to which Soda has an objection (we've been up & down that highway/haven't seen a goddamn thing) because they sum up so perfectly the emptiness of the couple's lives. However if people are uncomfortable with those lines that is fair enough. But overall, LITFL is one of the best lyrics ever written, for me.

ITA with you about this, FP. To me, that is the best line in a song that has many great lines because it pretty much sums up the whole song to me - this couple is on a track going nowhere.

Some of my other favorite lines in the song that haven't already been mentioned are ...

"Call the doctor, I think I'm gonna crash
The doctor says he's coming, but you got to pay him cash."

This is just a great song with incredibly clever lyrics throughout, IMO.

[Freypower]

Soda nailed it - with the post I merely wished to instigate discussion of some variant, given how much I enjoy the Survivor games, and pursuant to Willie's comment.

For instance... Business as Usual bothers me tremendously, as they assert to criticize corporate organizations, whilst forcing fans to purchase the cd from the vendor who would ensure them the maximum profit margin.

And Get Over It. Really? A) don't a great many of Henley's tunes qualify for admonishment according to the criteria outlined in the lyrics? Long Road Out of Eden, Grasp on the Big Picture, even Dirty Laundry? Isn't the last one a four-minute whine, despite my unequivocal affinity for it? And B) kill all the lawyers? This from the band who litigates at the mere suggestion of something that a judge in some circuit somewhere could feasibly perceive as a transgression? And ps, lawyers are businessmen like everyone else. If someone submits a ten thousand dollar retainer, what are you to do? Take the case, obviously, as you wish to cultivate a living. The problem actually involves the absolute absence of common sense (wow, they serve coffee hot? Who knew?) and human decency/morality. Lawyers equate white blood cells. Do they sometimes wreak more havoc than they rectify? Certainly. But if someone hadn't inflicted an injury for sport, they would want for business, and disappear. (Obviously discounting ambulance chasers and the nimwits who advertise on telly and overcharge, etc... bad seeds in every profession.)

Anyway. Just attempting to rouse discussion. Drag the topic in every/any direction you like. :)

Re 'let's kill all the lawyers'; I just think they wanted to use Shakespeare's line in a somewhat lighthearted reference to the profusion of litigation in the United States today.

Could you give an example of the band's apparent eagerness to initiate litigation because I cannot think of anything recent apart from Henley vs De Vore.

Get Over It is anti politcal correctness, and just because Henley occasionally espouses 'liberal' views doesn't mean that those songs you mention are what Get Over It is about. If the songs were about him whining about his own life, then you would be spot on.

[TimothyBFan]

Soda nailed it - with the post I merely wished to instigate discussion of some variant, given how much I enjoy the Survivor games, and pursuant to Willie's comment.

For instance... Business as Usual bothers me tremendously, as they assert to criticize corporate organizations, whilst forcing fans to purchase the cd from the vendor who would ensure them the maximum profit margin.

And Get Over It. Really? A) don't a great many of Henley's tunes qualify for admonishment according to the criteria outlined in the lyrics? Long Road Out of Eden, Grasp on the Big Picture, even Dirty Laundry? Isn't the last one a four-minute whine, despite my unequivocal affinity for it? And B) kill all the lawyers? This from the band who litigates at the mere suggestion of something that a judge in some circuit somewhere could feasibly perceive as a transgression? And ps, lawyers are businessmen like everyone else. If someone submits a ten thousand dollar retainer, what are you to do? Take the case, obviously, as you wish to cultivate a living. The problem actually involves the absolute absence of common sense (wow, they serve coffee hot? Who knew?) and human decency/morality. Lawyers equate white blood cells. Do they sometimes wreak more havoc than they rectify? Certainly. But if someone hadn't inflicted an injury for sport, they would want for business, and disappear. (Obviously discounting ambulance chasers and the nimwits who advertise on telly and overcharge, etc... bad seeds in every profession.)

Anyway. Just attempting to rouse discussion. Drag the topic in every/any direction you like. :)

I cannot disagree with a thing you say here!!!! :thumbsup: Well said!

[Prettymaid]

Thank you ABM for getting back here to re-establish the gist of this thread. I was looking forward to reading heated debates about songs and their lyrics and instead got almost two pages of debate over 'offensive' and 'controversial'! :hilarious:

[TimothyBFan]

Bringing this thread up again after my little "experience" with The Last Resort this morning. Here's where I talked about it in the Hotel California Survivor thread.

https://eaglesonlinecentral.com/forum/showpost.php?p=131039&postcount=307

Any of you want to have a go at this song? I need to go to the lyrics on EOC and pick it apart a bit more.

I am really interested to get others take on this song a little more than we brought up while playing Survivor. Is it really as controversial as I think or was it just because it was first thing when I opened my eyes this morning and it got me at a vulnerable time?

[Prettymaid]

Well, to me it's an environmental song through and through, although I have to admit I'm not sure what the Lahaina/missionary reference is. The rest of the song is basically, 'Rich people are coming in and taking away the beautiful land and developing it and justifying it in their own way. Watch out if a place is beautiful enough to be called a paradise, because that just means they'll come along and take it too. We've got to save the few places that are left, before they're all gone'

I don't find it preachy, I love the melody and by the time the last verse is being sung and the Eagles are backing it up with their powerful "ah"s, I feel like I'm in paradise!

[Freypower]

To me the Lahaina part is possibly a continuation of the 'spoke about the red man's ways/how they loved the land' but the dominant culture is once again going to obliterate the native culture as they did on the mainland and now 'just like the missionaries did'. It then goes on to talk about 'the white man's burden' i.e. the demands of 'empire'. This then leads into the 'there is no such thing as paradise, real or imaginary (i.e. religion) part.

I am not a religious person & so I basically agree with what appears to be the anti-religious sentiment of the last verse. I can understand, however, why some would object to the line 'stand up & sing about what it's like up there' as if they are being told they are all unable to think for themselves.

[MikeA]

what appears to be the anti-religious sentiment of the last verse. I can understand, however, why some would object to the line 'stand up & sing about what it's like up there' as if they are being told they are all unable to think for themselves.

I didn't take that part that way Julie. I took it that he was saying, maybe with tongue in cheek, that any place enough people call "Paradise" will draw more people and that congregation of people will end up destroying what it was the first group was singing the praises of.

You know, like "Hey, Heaven is so great". People hear about how great it is and flock to it and then will probably destroy it, just as happened with the development (or destruction) of our civilization recently and as referenced earlier in the song.

I didn't think he was knocking religion other than as a focal point that might draw others in to destroy what religion held reverent....again, just as other flockings of people destroyed other things referenced in the song.

[sodascouts]

Well, let's look at what the songwriters say about it.

This is from The Very Best of the Eagles Booklet:
GLENN: "'The Last Resort' was the final piece of the Hotel California puzzle. We started the song early in the record, and Don finished seven months later. I called it Henley's opus. I helped describe what the song was going to be about and assisted with the arrangement, but it was Don's lyrics and basic chord progression.

One of the primary themes of the song was that we keep creating what we've been running away from -- violence, chaos, destruction. We migrated to the East Coast, killed a bunch of Indians, and just completely screwed that place up. Then we just kept moving west: "Move those teepees, we got some train tracks coming through here. Get outta the way, boy!" There were some very personal references in the song, including a girl from Providence, Rhode Island, who Don had dated for some time. She had taken an inheritance from her grandfather and moved to Aspen, Colorado, in search of a new life. Look where Aspen is now. How prophetic is "The Last Resort" 28 years after it was written? Aspen is a town where the billionaires have driven out the millionaires. It was once a great place. Look at Lahaina; look at Maui. It's so commercial. It's everything Hawaii was not supposed to be. Whether we're carrying the cross or carrying the gasoline can, we seem to have a penchant for wrecking beautiful places."


DON: "The final burst on this one happened in Benedict Canyon at a house I was living in with Irving [Azoff, the band's longtime manager and friend]. I was thinking of all the literary themes based on nature that I had studied back in school -- the awesome beauty and the spirituality inherent in the natural world and the unrelenting destruction of it, wrought by this thing that we call civilization or progress.

Some years earlier we had done a couple of benefit concerts with Neil Young for the Chumash Tribe, Native American people who are indigenous to California. We became friends with an elder in the tribe named Samu, and, eventually, we were invited to attend some tribal rituals and drum ceremonies. Samu was on a mission to raise funds for an education program which would teach the young people in the tribe about their language and their culture. The old man feared, rightly, that the white man's culture was stripping his people of their identity. They were losing the memory of their language, their ceremonies, their history. We were fortunate enough to be able to help.

Also, I'd been reading articles and doing research about the raping and pillaging of the West by mining, timber, oil and cattle interests. But I was interested in an even larger scope for the song, so I tried to go 'Michener' with it. I remember going out to Malibu and standing on Zuma beach, looking out at the ocean. I remember thinking, 'this is about as far west -- with the exception of Alaska -- as you can go on this continent. This is where Manifest Destiny ends -- right here, in the middle of all these surfboards and volleyball nets and motor homes.' And then I thought, 'Nah, we've gone right on over and screwed up Hawaii too.'

I still think, though, that the song was never fully realized, musically speaking. It's fairly pedestrian from a musical point of view. But lyrically it's not bad. Especially the last verse, which turns it from one thing into another and it becomes an allegorical statement about religion -- the deception and destructiveness that is inherent in the mythology of most organized religion -- the whole 'dominion' thing. The song is a reaffirmation of the age-old idea that everything in the universe is connected and that there are consequences, downstream, for everything we do."

I'll post my thoughts later.

[MikeA]

Aghhh, what does HE know anyway...he just wrote the thing! <LOL>

[Ive always been a dreamer]

Well, this is just a personal thing for me, but I prefer not to discuss those volitile subjects of religion and politics here on the board, so I am going to stick with that here. I will say that my interpretation of the line in The Last Resort, "and, Jesus, people bought them" is that "Jesus" is used as an expletive. However, I certainly don't think it's wrong for anyone to interpret it as "Jesus people". As with many Eagles songs, I think the lyrics are intentionally ambiguous giving the listener the freedom to apply their own meaning to them.

[TimothyBFan]

Dreamer-probably a good policy to live by but I'm still looking forward to hearing what others think this song is about. No one has to go into detail about their religion or political beliefs while interpreting what they think the song is about really.

I listened a couple more times this weekend and I still think that even tho Don shakes his head during the "Jesus people bought them" doesn't neccessarily mean that he's referring to the people who did it as "Jesus people". Maybe he is shaking his head at "Jesus people". Just saying.... could be.

[Prettymaid]

But why would it be important to relay that 'Jesus people' bought these cookie cutter houses (ugly boxes)? It seems to me at this point he's just trying to say 'As wrong as it is for this beautiful land to be destroyed to build more cheap housing, I can't believe people will still buy them."

[TimothyBFan]

Because, PM, I'm trying to start an argument, ok?!?!? :hilarious: JK But I'm going on record as saying that I wasn't the only one that thought that and I'm still not sure. I still think it can be a remark on religion that he is trying to make. Same with the "they eve brought a neon sign, 'Jesus is coming'" line later on. He's obviously trying to make a statement about religion in this song also.

[Prettymaid]

Okay, I agree with you that he makes references to religion in the song too. I think he's saying, 'You think you're so good and religious, but look what you're doing to the land.' But in that particular line that we're discussing I think he's being more subtle than saying 'Jesus people', and that he is probably saying 'Jesus,...people bought them!'

That's my story and I'm sticking to it! :lol:

[Ive always been a dreamer]

Dreamer-probably a good policy to live by but I'm still looking forward to hearing what others think this song is about. No one has to go into detail about their religion or political beliefs while interpreting what they think the song is about really.

Just want to make it clear that I wasn't trying to telll others whether or not they should respond. As I said, it's a personal thing for me. Since religion and politics are such emotional topics, I find it hard to maintain objectivity when talking about them. Therefore, I prefer to avoid discussing them here, but that's just me. ;)

[sodascouts]

When I first heard "The Last Resort", my immediate reaction was anger. I felt like it was hating on Christians. I thought that the last part sounded contemptuous of missionaries and people who believed in Jesus and went to church. In fact, it turned me off so much that I burned a version of Hotel California without the song on it to listen to in the car. I still haven't written out what I think because I want to be careful with what I say, but you're not alone in hearing that, TBF (I mean hearing an anti-religious attitude - as I said earlier, I think the line in question is "Jesus, people bought 'em").

[Brooke]

I was waiting to hear your controversial thoughts on this, Soda, but I understand if you don't want to post them.

I have to say I've always been a little put off by the song, too. Beautifully sung, of course, but it does poke me in the ribs a little.

[MikeA]

I have to come to Don's defense a little bit here. I think there is little doubt that Don was indeed talking about "religiosity." That is not the same as attacking Faith. He may be attacking Faith but that is ambiguous in the lyrics of the song.

No, what he is attacking I think is the ABUSE of Religion. Or the use of it to justify the actions of those Don is referring to. It well could be applied to that group that is protesting at the funerals of Military Personnel killed in the line of duty.

But I don't think he is limiting it to those blatant violations. I think Don was just seeing a general deterioration of Biblical Principals...a deterioration that I myself have seen all too often.

Some rich men came and raped the land
Nobody caught 'em
Put up a bunch of ugly boxes
And Jesus, people bought 'em
And they called it paradise - "the place to be"
They watched the hazy sun sinking in the sea

I don't think there can be a lot of speculation of the use of "Jesus" as an expletive in this context...I stand corrected completely on this part. Just describes a perversion of capitalism that turned out to be a success though possibly the marketing was in fact a red-heron. Like, the idiots, they bought that bill of goods and as a result, what was virgin country is now ruined.

The last part that deals with religion though:

Who will provide the grand design?
What is yours and what is mine?
'Cause there is no more new frontier
We have got to make it here
We satisfy our endless needs
And justify our bloody deeds
In the name of destiny
And in the name of God

This part, I think is referring to what Religion considers Gods Plan as laid out in the Bible. The second part of this, well, this is the part that hits home hardest....Just about anything can be justified with a lot of imagination and no respect. Everything from the Crusades, to the Jihad, to witch burnings to the protests at the funerals. This covers it ALL.

And you can see them there on Sunday morning
They stand up and sing about what it's like up there
They call it paradise; I don't know why
You call someplace paradise, kiss it goodbye

I take this last part as a lament by Don. He sees congregations gathering and professing the Paradise of Heaven...singing it's praises and it's perfection. Then in the last part....if Man can pervert everything else that has been Labeled as a Paradise, look out Heaven....It's being perverted too.

I don't necessarily think he is bashing Christianity as a concept so much as he is that which Man in his greed, destroys. I see that verse as sort of a tongue in cheek statement.

But all of that is just my own take on this song...a song that I've sort of liked the melody of but never cared much for the Darkness that it is the statement of.

[tequila girl]

As I said in the HC Survivor thread The Last Resort is my favourite on that album, I couldn't have begun to dissect it as thouroughly as you have just done Mike and I think you did it perfectly :bow:. It always seems to me a very sad and poignant song.

[Freypower]

When I first heard "The Last Resort", my immediate reaction was anger. I felt like it was hating on Christians. I thought that the last part sounded contemptuous of missionaries and people who believed in Jesus and went to church. In fact, it turned me off so much that I burned a version of Hotel California without the song on it to listen to in the car. I still haven't written out what I think because I want to be careful with what I say, but you're not alone in hearing that, TBF (I mean hearing an anti-religious attitude - as I said earlier, I think the line in question is "Jesus, people bought 'em").

If you are specifically referring to the use of the word 'Jesus' as an expletive as 'anti-religious' or perhaps blasphemous I understand that, but I disagree. I just think it is forcefully expressed. To me, if any part of the song is anti-religious it is the last section but I tend to agree with Mike's comments on it.

[Troubadour]

I completely agree with Mike. He said it better than I could.

I don't think the song is necessarily bashing religion or faith, but those who abuse it. It's highlighting the nature of human beings. (I think of it in a similar vein to Joni Mitchell's Big Yellow Taxi and Cat Stevens' Where Do The Children Play? "Will we keep on building higher till there's no more room up there?")

I particularly love the lines "Who will provide the grand design - what is yours and what is mine, 'cause there is no more new frontier, we have got to make it here." It's about urging people to concentrate on what they have right now, and trying to make them realise that the earth is not a bottomless resource... land WILL run out. I also think that a lot of Eagles/Don songs urge people to focus on the here and now - not to ridicule people who have faith, but to highlight the fact that we can sometimes get so caught up in thinking about the future or "what else" is out there, that we forget to live and we forget to enjoy the beauty around us. (I'm thinking particularly of They're Not Here, They're Not Coming... "turn your hopes back homeward, hold your children, dry their tears.")

I think The Last Resort is one of the most beautiful and under-appreciated Eagles songs in their catalogue. I don't take it as anti-religious - I take it as a lament about the way the name of God has been used by some people to commit terrible deeds and also the way that human beings have a tendency for greed and destruction. "You call someplace Paradise - kiss it goodbye." Humans will defame everything... first the land, then Heaven.

On the subject of the "Jesus, people bought 'em" line, I am certain that "Jesus" is an expression of frustration or disbelief - an expletive, as others have said. On the Hell Freezes Over DVD, Don shakes his head and I think it's a perfect expression of what that line is meant to convey. I don't think it is meant to be "Jesus people", although I had never considered that interpretation. Very interesting to read the other viewpoints and comments!

[sodascouts]

I thought that the last part sounded contemptuous of missionaries and people who believed in Jesus and went to church. [...] (I mean hearing an anti-religious attitude - as I said earlier, I think the line in question is "Jesus, people bought 'em").If you are specifically referring to the use of the word 'Jesus' as an expletive as 'anti-religious' or perhaps blasphemous I understand that, but I disagree. I just think it is forcefully expressed. To me, if any part of the song is anti-religious it is the last section but I tend to agree with Mike's comments on it.
As I said in my original post, I was referring to the last part, not the specific line in question.

[MikeA]

Nancy, the part of that lyric that seems questionable to me is:

They call it paradise; I don't know why

He may have needed that "I don't know why" to keep the mechanics of his scheme of rhyming going. Or maybe he has his doubts about Heaven being a "Paradise" but whatever the reasoning behind it, he was trying to get to the real statement which was that in everything else Man has called Paradise, Man has perverted it at best and destroyed it at worst.

[GlennLover]

Mike & Troub, you have pretty well summed up my thoughts on the song & expressed them much better that I could. Thanks

I think in the last part of the song Don is alluding to the fact that even though some people go to church, they may not act very much like Christians.

[MikeA]

Nancy, the part of that lyric that seems questionable to me is: They call it paradise; I don't know why.

Again, I read this another way

They call it paradise, I don't know why: because from what I've seen, anything we called Paradise got ruined by us. Better play it safe and not call Heaven Paradise if we don't want it destroyed too (as he rolls his eyes and shakes his head as he turns and walks away).

I think that is more than I've ever analyzed any song and thought deeper than my poor ole drugged out brain should be taxed with. I think I'll learn the song. I do like the melody and the way the lyrics hang together. <LOL> Might have to relyric it a little to make sure I don't get crucified by my family for singing it though <LOL>

[tequila girl]

They call it paradise, I don't know why: because from what I've seen, anything we called Paradise got ruined by us. Better play it safe and not call Heaven Paradise if we don't want it destroyed too (as he rolls his eyes and shakes his head as he turns and walks away).

That is exactly what he's saying Mike!..... I can read Don like a book! :wink: :nod: :grin:

[Freypower]

To me the most interesting part of the song, as a non-American, is its criticism of 'manifest destiny' and 'the white man's burden'. All of this has since been reprised in what I consider a far superior song, Long Road Out Of Eden (to me that song has a great deal more global resonance). First the settlers powered their way to California and even though they may have 'spoke about the red man's ways' they pushed them out of the way. Then the missionaries went one step further to Hawaii to 'finish the job' on the native people there, if you like. No doubt many if not most of them had good intentions but the phrases quoted above cannot be denied.

The part of the song which best sums this up is:

We satisfy our endless needs
And justify our bloody deeds
In the name of destiny
And in the name of God

As LROOE shows, this has happened throughout history, and has been done by all 'empires', not just the United States.

[TimothyBFan]

No, what he is attacking I think is the ABUSE of Religion. Or the use of it to justify the actions of those Don is referring to.

I think you are spot on here Mike. That's what I've been thinking all along.



I don't think there can be a lot of speculation of the use of "Jesus" as an expletive in this context...I stand corrected completely on this part.

Again, I admit I think I read more into that line than was meant to be. Hadn't even thought of it that way but I stand corrected also.




I think in the last part of the song Don is alluding to the fact that even though some people go to church, they may not act very much like Christians.


We satisfy our endless needs
And justify our bloody deeds
In the name of destiny
And in the name of God

I personally think what you said GL can definitely pertain to this part of the song! I know people like this that go to church every week, call themselves Christians but there actions don't seem Christian like a lot of the time.

And you can see them there on Sunday morning
They stand up and sing about what it's like up there
They call it paradise; I don't know why
You call someplace paradise, kiss it goodbye

This part can also apply there. I think he's saying that some people think you can do just about anything as long as you show up to church on Sunday morning and/or do it in the name of God, it's justified.

Just my interpretation and I don't mean to offend anyone with it.

Glad to see that I did get some discussion going on this song and I'm still interested to see some of the other discussion and interpretations yet to come.