Songs by others Glenn & Don helped with...

[chaim]

There are Eagles songs that were started by another member, but later Don and Glenn helped finish. Off the top of my head "Certain kind of fool", "Hollywood waltz", "Take it to the limit", and "I can't tell you why" come to mind. I'm not including songs started by Felder, because we know that he didn't contribute lyrics. My question concerns those other songs. So:
Do we know what Don and Glenn contributed to those songs? Were they just lyrics, or did they contribute music too? We do know that Randy and Bernie wrote lyrics, so they didn't necessarily need Don and Glenn to help write them. And we also know (if it's true!) about Glenn's tendency, as claimed by Felder, sometimes to "change a word and gain a third". I know that Glenn's and Don's contribution to "Hollywood waltz" was just lyrics, because Bernie has said that they took the lyric to a metaphorical level. Bernie said that stuff like acacias blooming were originally meant literally, and he loved how Glenn and Don took it to another level.
So, those other songs...do we know how much Glenn and Don contributed?

Also, in the Farewell I DVD Glenn says about "TITtL" that it's a song he and Don wrote. I find that a bit irritatingHowever, in History Of the Eagles Glenn says that Randy started it.

[Prettymaid]

Doesn't Randy say something in the doc like that it was normal for him to only have a couple of lines to his songs, and Glenn and Don would finish them?

[chaim]

Doesn't Randy say something in the doc like that it was normal for him to only have a couple of lines to his songs, and Glenn and Don would finish them?

Does he? I missed that. Well, that would be the answer to the Meisner/Henley/Frey question.

[sad-cafe]

yea, he said "I'd write a couple of lines and Don and Glenn would finish"

[Freypower]

There are Eagles songs that were started by another member, but later Don and Glenn helped finish. Off the top of my head "Certain kind of fool", "Hollywood waltz", "Take it to the limit", and "I can't tell you why" come to mind. I'm not including songs started by Felder, because we know that he didn't contribute lyrics. My question concerns those other songs. So:
Do we know what Don and Glenn contributed to those songs? Were they just lyrics, or did they contribute music too? We do know that Randy and Bernie wrote lyrics, so they didn't necessarily need Don and Glenn to help write them. And we also know (if it's true!) about Glenn's tendency, as claimed by Felder, sometimes to "change a word and gain a third". I know that Glenn's and Don's contribution to "Hollywood waltz" was just lyrics, because Bernie has said that they took the lyric to a metaphorical level. Bernie said that stuff like acacias blooming were originally meant literally, and he loved how Glenn and Don took it to another level.
So, those other songs...do we know how much Glenn and Don contributed?

Also, in the Farewell I DVD Glenn says about "TITtL" that it's a song he and Don wrote. I find that a bit irritatingHowever, in History Of the Eagles Glenn says that Randy started it.

First of all, can we please take that 'change a word & gain a third' stuff with an extremely large pinch of salt. Is Felder going to credit Glenn with anything at all? No.

From what I understand most of the music of ICTYW was written by Glenn & Don helped Tim with the lyrics. I would guess this is also the case with TITTL. I doubt that at this stage we will ever know what they contributed to the other songs you mentioned.

[Turf]

FWIW, here's a quote from the 1975 Rolling Stone article (http://www.theuncool.com/journalism/rs196-the-eagles/) which mentions lyric writing (highlighting added, italics are original).



Though the Eagles agree that it's probably their finest effort, Desperado was the scene of the battle that the group still fights every time they enter the studio. "The only two people in this group who tend to think alike are Glenn and me," explains Henley, "and we've always wanted every song to be the best that it could be. We didn't want any filler. No stinkers. So there's been plenty of fights even with Glyn Johns over 'Aww, you guys just want to rewrite all the lyrics.' That’s not true. We don't disagree with anything anybody in the band has to say, it's just how they say it. When somebody hears a bad song, they're not gonna say, 'So-and-so wrote a weak song.' They're gonna say, 'There’s a shitty song on the Eagles album.' It reflects on everybody. Still, I suppose it's a matter of taste."

Frey cuts in, "I asked Graham Nash once, 'In CSNY did you guys ever change any of the other guys' lyrics?' He said, 'No, never. Why, do you do that?' I said 'yeah' and he kinda looked shocked. I just think it’s part of the band trip.

[GlennLover]

I have seen a clip from a concert, Farewell 1 era I believe, where Glenn is introducing TITTL & he says that he & Don wrote the song " for & with " Randy. I found it odd that he didn't mention Randy in Farewell 1.

[chaim]

FWIW, here's a quote from the 1975 Rolling Stone article (http://www.theuncool.com/journalism/rs196-the-eagles/) which mentions lyric writing (highlighting added, italics are original).

Thanks. It does look like Don's and Glenn's contributions to some of those songs were basically lyrics. So "Certain kind of fool" was probably totally Randy's composition. "On the border" is interesting. The music is probably mostly Bernie's; at least the verse.

[Freypower]

And what about the songs they co-wrote with J.D. Souther? Which parts of those songs did Don & Glenn write?

It has bugged me for years, the suspicion that maybe most of New Kid In Town was written by Souther, and that may be one of the reasons why the song has fallen so far from grace with the band (leaving aside the 'it's too hard to sing' business). I don't know why that would be the case but there it is.

[Freypower]

I have seen a clip from a concert, Farewell 1 era I believe, where Glenn is introducing TITTL & he says that he & Don wrote the song " for & with " Randy. I found it odd that he didn't mention Randy in Farewell 1.

Because it just isn't the done thing to give shout outs to former members in filmed performances?

[sad-cafe]

I have a song title

"Marking Time"



as in we live day to day marking time

we should make our Mark on the World and not just mark time.




does that make sense?

Don would do wonders with that!

[Vector]

I'm not including songs started by Felder, because we know that he didn't contribute lyrics.

I don't think that is entirely accurate. Granted he typically wrote the musical scores, in some cases the entire song for most of the different instruments. However he also wrote some lyrics for different songs, but probably not enough to be listed as one of the main contributers.
One of the most interesting things he did early on was suggest they change One Of These Nights from a piano based song to a guitar based one. While I'm sure the other would have been nice, I cannot imagine one of my favorite songs any other way.



And we also know (if it's true!) about Glenn's tendency, as claimed by Felder, sometimes to "change a word and gain a third".


First of all, can we please take that 'change a word & gain a third' stuff with an extremely large pinch of salt.

Having read his book twice recently, I keep finding it amazing how others say it was Felder saying this. Sure he wrote it in his book, but he was actually attributing that saying as something both L eadon and Meisner were complaining about when he joined the band. In the TITTL book, Meisner gains a voice not read in any other book thus far, and expresses both his and L eadons discontent with how Frey/Henley took over everything.


Is Felder going to credit Glenn with anything at all? No.

I don't know what book you read, but Felder was very complimentary toward both Frey and Henley. Sure he had his criticism of them as well, but by and large he always had positive things to say about their abilities. He has also done so publicly, such as the HOF induction ceremony, and in the Doc.
He recently did an interview where he took the high road despite the host being outraged on Felder's behalf after having watched the Doc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGMj093pl0k

My impression is that Frey is the one who rarely gives credit to Felder, and/or minimizes his contributions, not the other way around.

`

[chaim]

One of the most interesting things he did early on was suggest they change One Of These Nights from a piano based song to a guitar based one. While I'm sure the other would have been nice, I cannot imagine one of my favorite songs any other way.

Having read his book twice recently, I keep finding it amazing how others say it was Felder saying this. Sure he wrote it in his book, but he was actually attributing that saying as something both L eadon and Meisner were complaining about when he joined the band. In the TITTL book, Meisner gains a voice not read in any other book thus far, and expresses both his and L eadons discontent with how Frey/Henley took over everything.

`

These two points...

Yeah, Don F changed OOTN into something great, but of course, Glenn did those harmony guitars.

"Change a word, gain a third". You are absolutely right; Don was only saying what he remembered Randy and Bernie saying. I didn't mean to imply say those were Don's words. I felt that everybody here probably knows that he was quoting those guys, so I didn't felt I needed to say that.

[Vector]

These two points...

Yeah, Don F changed OOTN into something great, but of course, Glenn did those harmony guitars.

"Change a word, gain a third". You are absolutely right; Don was only saying what he remembered Randy and Bernie saying. I didn't mean to imply say those were Don's words. I felt that everybody here probably knows that he was quoting those guys, so I didn't felt I needed to say that.

Just as some people have no clue about Felder saying it was his other bandmates making that comment, so to do many people not realize that Frey is a great player in his own right.

Part of what made the Eagles so great is the fact they all played multiple instruments well, and all sang well. You just had a few who were exceptional at certain aspects, so the others would get overshadowed. For instance most people say either Henley or Frey were great lead vocalists, with the other guys being harmony/backup vocalists. Yet everyone in the band, (Felder included) had good voices. It is just that two were exceptional, another two were exceptional for a certain type of pitch songs(Meisner - Schmit), and the rest could sing lead in most other bands. The same is true of Frey where not only could he play lead guitar, but his ability to play guitar in other capacities (including lead) is overlooked because of L eadon, Felder, and Walsh.

[chaim]

Just as some people have no clue about Felder saying it was his other bandmates making that comment, so to do many people not realize that Frey is a great player in his own right.

Part of what made the Eagles so great is the fact they all played multiple instruments well, and all sang well. You just had a few who were exceptional at certain aspects, so the others would get overshadowed. For instance most people say either Henley or Frey were great lead vocalists, with the other guys being harmony/backup vocalists. Yet everyone in the band, (Felder included) had good voices. It is just that two were exceptional, another two were exceptional for a certain type of pitch songs(Meisner - Schmit), and the rest could sing lead in most other bands. The same is true of Frey where not only could he play lead guitar, but his ability to play guitar in other capacities (including lead) is overlooked because of L eadon, Felder, and Walsh.

Yep. No one in the Eagles is probably considered the "king of the keys", but Glenn's the one who has probably played them most. But, when you listen to New Kid In Town, the original version, it's obvious that Joe's keyboard parts (electric piano & organ) raise the song to another level. Joe is known as a guitar hero, but many people probably don't realise that he can do fine suff on keyboards too.

[VAisForEagleLovers]

Yep. No one in the Eagles is probably considered the "king of the keys", but Glenn's the one who has probably played them most. But, when you listen to New Kid In Town, the original version, it's obvious that Joe's keyboard parts (electric piano & organ) raise the song to another level. Joe is known as a guitar hero, but many people probably don't realise that he can do fine suff on keyboards too.

His mother was a really good pianist, right? I remember reading a long time ago, somewhere but no idea where, that he was/is truly great tickling the ivories. I for one am glad he chose guitar, but yeah, he's not to be underestimated on keys.

[sodascouts]

I believe Joe's mother may have played professionally at some point. He describes her as "classically trained."

It's true that one doesn't typically think of Joe as being a multi-instrumentalist. I remember being surprised when, during a concert video, Joe popped back to play on the keyboards for an Eagles song here and there.

[Freypower]

I don't know what book you read, but Felder was very complimentary toward both Frey and Henley. Sure he had his criticism of them as well, but by and large he always had positive things to say about their abilities. He has also done so publicly, such as the HOF induction ceremony, and in the Doc.
He recently did an interview where he took the high road despite the host being outraged on Felder's behalf after having watched the Doc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGMj093pl0k

My impression is that Frey is the one who rarely gives credit to Felder, and/or minimizes his contributions, not the other way around.

`

I will make a quick response to this & then I will say no more.

After the band split up Frey constantly went out of his way to praise Felder's ability. He did it all the time, although I cannot quote chapter & verse at the moment

If you thought that Felder was complimentary to Frey in his book you will have to give me some examples because I found precisely none. The HOF induction ceremony was a very long time ago before it all went wrong & in that instance he was praising the Henley/Frey songwriting team.

[VAisForEagleLovers]

The same is true of Frey where not only could he play lead guitar, but his ability to play guitar in other capacities (including lead) is overlooked because of L eadon, Felder, and Walsh.

I am in awe over his guitar-playing skills. As a fellow left-hander who can't even butter my bread with my right hand, I am always amazed when watching and listening to him.

[TimothyBFan]

I am in awe over his guitar-playing skills. As a fellow left-hander who can't even butter my bread with my right hand, I am always amazed when watching and listening to him.

:sad: Me too!!! I wouldn't even attempt to put a knife, even a butter knife, in my right hand. Dangerous. :hilarious:

[GlennLover]

I will make a quick response to this & then I will say no more.

After the band split up Frey constantly went out of his way to praise Felder's ability. He did it all the time, although I cannot quote chapter & verse at the moment.

I can think of one interview in particular done in the early 90's, which I have a video of, where Glenn makes a point of mentioning that Felder was a valuable member of the band who has often been overlooked. He did not make the comment in response to any question or discussion about Felder.

Also, I will have to read Felder's book again to look for instances where he compliments Glenn. The only example I can think of is him crediting Glenn for giving his all on Heartache Tonight when they were having so much difficulty recording The Long Run album.

[Vector]

Wow, for those of you who read Felder's book but don't remember him giving Frey and/or Henley compliments, I wonder if we read the same book. Or could it be that his criticism of them overshadowed for you what was obvious praise at times :confused:

Either way, it is off the topic of this thread, so I will address it more when I get back to posting in my thread, now that I've finished the Eliot book.
If you thought Felder's book was critical, it is nothing compared with Eliot's.
The more I read about these guys, the less I like some of them, and the more I like the guys I never even knew their names.

[sad-cafe]

I read Felder's book and all I can remember from it was all the digs he took at both Henley and Frey. It is on my Kindle so I can re-read it but I don't think I want to at this point. Before the book I knew nothing about Felder...after the book well, lets just say it didn't endear me to him

[Ive always been a dreamer]

I am in awe over his guitar-playing skills. As a fellow left-hander who can't even butter my bread with my right hand, I am always amazed when watching and listening to him.


:sad: Me too!!! I wouldn't even attempt to put a knife, even a butter knife, in my right hand. Dangerous. :hilarious:

Make that 3 lefties in awe of those guitar playing skills. And I'm pretty useless using my right hand too - heck, I even have a hard time flippin' somebody the bird with it. :lol:

[VAisForEagleLovers]

[QUOTE=Ive always been a dreamer;232642heck, I even have a hard time flippin' somebody the bird with it. :lol:[/QUOTE]

Hmm. Never had that problem...