View Full Version : Long Road Out of Eden
sodascouts
10-09-2007, 03:07 PM
I forgot to mention that on the Official Site (http://www.eaglesband.com) there are two more new clips in the player. They are different than the ones previously posted. I'm going to start a new topic for each song, and tis one's for Long Road Out of Eden.
It appears that the Middle-Eastern type intro is not going to be the sound of the entire track!
Here's the old one for reference:
https://www.eaglesonlinecentral.com/multimedia/MP3/LROOEClip.mp3
JoeFan
10-09-2007, 03:51 PM
Not sure about this one yet, we'll see.
Freypower
10-09-2007, 06:32 PM
There seemed to be a lot of noise behind Don's voice. Is it a marketplace in Baghdad? :D It's about time they did another Epic.
rcknalwys
10-10-2007, 06:32 PM
These little teasers are so great! I'm lovin'em all! I'm already picking out my favorites!
sodascouts
11-03-2007, 12:16 PM
I have to admit that after listening to the entirety of this song, I'm not as big a fan of it as everyone else is. I think it has terrific segments - that guitar solo is amazing, and I like Don's vocal on the "I'd give anything to be there in your arms tonight." However, overall, it's too long, and overdone almost to the point of self-indulgence. I feel the guitar solo is wasted and the middle eastern music overused. A minute at the front is bad enough, but putting more in the middle of the song after that incredible guitar solo almost feels like a chastisement - "You were starting to enjoy this song? Don't forget it's serious and political! To reminds you, here's a boring middle eastern interlude." It totally kills the song.
Maleah
11-03-2007, 12:34 PM
I have to completely agree on the middle eastern music. It's fine at the beginning (although I think a minute of it is way to long of an intro) but to interrupt the song? And right after the solo? I DON'T like that at all. The solo is BRILLIANT! The song is VERY well written (but I agree, a tad too long lol) and Don's vocals are spot on awesome. I love the melody of the song once it gets going. But it would have been fine if they had just stopped at 2 verses. I thought the song was done! lol
Freypower
11-03-2007, 06:29 PM
Light and shade?
They are contrasting the old world with the overblown excess of the modern world. I suppose I don't think the 'Middle Eastern' music is misplaced because I applaud them for stepping so far out of their comfort zone. They don't always want to do chiming guitar solos. If they had done so it would have just been Hotel California Part 2.
In the vocals I love it where Glenn sings with Don in the lines before the chorus. All that 'pilgrims and prodigals' and 'road to Utopia' stuff. It is nice to hear him sing those type of lyrics even if he isn't singing lead.
Where Don overreaches to me is with the 'gimme another slice of barbequed brisket/pecan pie'. He had made the point about the Petroleum Club very well without taking it to such specific examples.
I would like to hope the electric piano is by Glenn. I would not hold my breath.
Long Road Out of Eden is great,you can tell Don is from the South talking about Brisket and pecan pie,I love the song.
Billy
11-03-2007, 11:06 PM
a great track...unusual intro etc...
I Love Eagles because they have always been able to re-produce their material live.....and i judge each song like that..can they do it live?(same as every track--ask yourself that question).
EasyFeeling
11-04-2007, 09:03 AM
Am I the only one who thinks immediately of Pink Floyd while listening to that song? :? I love that similarity to PF and really enjoy the guitar playing.
Freypower
11-04-2007, 07:31 PM
No, to me it's long Led Zeppelin and long Dire Straits. It is much more 'focused' than Pink Floyd. The guitar work is more dreamy in songs like Shine On You Crazy Diamond. Here it's urgent.
So the 'brisket and pecan pie' stuff is a Southern reference? Thanks for that. But then I don't know much about 'clover fields' and 'county fairs' either. :blush:
sodascouts
11-04-2007, 08:26 PM
Yes, it's a Southern thing. It implies that all these fatcat members of the "Petroleum Club" are Southerners. I don't know why he chose to make such an unfair sweeping generalization. There are quite a few war profiteers who are Northern. Henley should know. He performed at a bat mizvah for one of them. All of his pay going to Walden Woods, of course. :)
I don't want to sound too harsh. I just grew up in Texas, so such things annoy me - especially when the perpetuator of the stereotype is himself a Texan. I do appreciate that Henley is well-intentioned in his social criticism. He is just doing what he believes is right. Often, he is effective and eloquent. Indeed, he is effective and eloquent in other parts of this very song. I just think that, in that Southern reference, he missed the mark somewhat.
Perfect Little Sister
11-05-2007, 02:07 PM
I haven't formed a solid opinion on this one yet. There are parts I love and parts I don't. I think the point could have been made in less than ten minutes.
Brooke
11-05-2007, 02:30 PM
I really like it. Not too crazy about the first part, but that's ok.
The Bomber
11-10-2007, 11:32 PM
Finally listened to the record enough to give my opinions. I'll start with this one.
LROOE is WAY too long. Gets boring. Should've been edited down. Killer guitar solo though.
Freypower
11-11-2007, 07:21 PM
The length is perfect for me. Perhaps it's because I am used to songs like Kashmir and Telegraph Road. I love how it rises and falls.
I was looking through my postcards and some nice person had sent me a card from Georgia with a pecan pie! So now I know!
(In Australia the words would be gimme another meat pie & tomato sauce'). :twisted:
eagleshenleyfan
11-17-2007, 08:33 PM
My favourite song on the album and one of my fav Eagles songs ever. The middle eastern influence adds an atmospheric touch. Don's vocals are superb as are Glenn's harmonies. The guitar solo is fantastic (Not sure if it's Steuart or Joe though?) Is it just me or is there a progressive element to the song?
I would love to hear this live but due to the length will it happen? There's no way HC will be taken out of the set-list for this.
rcknalwys
11-18-2007, 03:26 PM
The middle eastern thing kind of put me off when I first heard this song but the more I listen to it, the more I get why they used it. The comments about the juxtaposition of worlds made a lot of sense to me. I do agree the bbq brisket and pecan pie is a bit much though. That blistering guitar solo is just awesome, hope to hear this live but like most of you, I think it probably won't be included due to the length. I know it's been compared to HC, but I don't really see it that way at all. LROOE speaks to so many issues we are all grappling with and the music just builds and builds, taking us with it. This is one of those songs where the music evokes the feelings in your gut that are being given voice through the words.
Ive always been a dreamer
11-19-2007, 12:49 AM
When I first learned that LROOE was over 10 minutes long, I thought, good grief, I don't want to listen to a song that long no matter how good it is. But after hearing this a few times, I changed my mind. I think the song is beautifully done. It doesn't seem 10 minutes long because the song is separated into 'segments' - almost like two or three 'mini songs'. I really love it. I think part of the point of the song is that it is too long - one of the most effective parts is how the repetitive, almost monotonous soldier drum march at the end goes on and on and on.
sodascouts
11-14-2012, 06:46 PM
I have to say after seeing this song performed live, I have a much more positive opinion of it!
Freypower
11-14-2012, 07:21 PM
As people may know I believe this song to be an absolute masterpiece which will probably make my Top 5 Eagles songs at some time. When I saw them play it it was astouding watching Don & Glenn sing their parts & Joe do that awesome solo.
VAisForEagleLovers
11-14-2012, 10:43 PM
Soda, I was reading back through the thread and I have to say, I always thought brisket was a NY/New England thing! I guess because most briskets are corned beef and that's hard to find outside of the area. There are plenty of pecan pies in the north, too, we just pronounce it differently! Of course, we import our pecans from the South and pay a lot of money for said pie.
Reading all the interviews up to when this was released I was sure I'd hate the song. So I was pleasantly surprised. It's still far from my favorite and I have to admit that I seldom listen to it all the way through.
The lyrics:
Moon shining down through the palms
Shadows moving on the sand
Somebody whispering the 23rd Psalm
Dusty rifle in his trembling hands
Somebody trying just to stay alive
He got promises to keep
Over the ocean in America
Far away and fast asleep
Silent stars blinking in the blackness of an endless sky
Cold silver satellites, ghostly caravans passing by
Galaxies unfolding; new worlds being born
Pilgrims and prodigals creeping toward the dawn
But it's a long road out of Eden
Music blasting from an SUV
On a bright and sunny day
Rolling down the interstate
In the good old USA
Having lunch at the Petroleum Club
Smoking fine cigars and swapping lies
They say, "Give me 'nother slice of that barbecued brisket
Give me 'nother piece of that pecan pie"
Freeways flickering; cell phones chiming a tune
We're riding to Utopia; road map says we'll be arriving soon
Captains of the old order clinging to the reins
Assuring us these aches inside are only growing pains
But it's a long road out of Eden
Back home, I was so certain; the path was very clear
But now I have to wonder - what are we doing here?
And I'm not counting on tomorrow and I can't tell wrong from right
But I'd give anything to be there in your arms tonight
Weaving down the American highway
Through the litter and the wreckage, and the cultural junk
Bloated with entitlement, loaded on propaganda
And now we're driving dazed and drunk
Went down the road to Damascus, the road to Mandalay
Met the ghost of Caesar on the Appian Way
He said, "It's hard to stop this bingeing once you get a taste
But the road to empire is a bloody, stupid waste"
Behold the bitten apple, the power of the tools
But all the knowledge in the world is of no use to fools
And it's a long road out of Eden
EaglesKiwi
11-15-2012, 03:33 AM
Love this song, it's definitely in my Top 5 Eagles songs.
Are there any interviews etc where they've talked about writing the song? I'm particularly interested in the lines:
"Went down the road to Damascus, the road to Mandalay
Met the ghost of Caesar on the Appian Way"
TimothyBFan
11-15-2012, 10:34 AM
I absolutely didn't like this song UNTIL I saw it live the first time!!! Then I went home, and really, really listened to the lyrics and they are very, very thought provoking. I only wish it was shorter and because of that, I never listen to it all the way thru. I find myself FF through the first minute and then going to the next song right after the last lyric.
As for the lyrics- here's my take on some of them:
Moon shining down through the palms
Shadows moving on the sand
Somebody whispering the 23rd Psalm
Dusty rifle in his trembling hands
Somebody trying just to stay alive
He got promises to keep
Over the ocean in America
Far away and fast asleep
I get a real visual of a young man hunkered down in a fox hole in the desert, scared to death as he holds onto his rifle and thinks about home.
Music blasting from an SUV
On a bright and sunny day
Rolling down the interstate
In the good old USA
Having lunch at the Petroleum Club
Smoking fine cigars and swapping lies
They say, "Give me 'nother slice of that barbecued brisket
Give me 'nother piece of that pecan pie"
These are the things he's thinking about. Can't wait to get back home to Mom's brisket and pie and wants to hang out with his buddies, cruising around, listening to music, etc...
Captains of the old order clinging to the reins
Assuring us these aches inside are only growing pains
Politicians? Rich CEOs?
Weaving down the American highway
Through the litter and the wreckage, and the cultural junk
Bloated with entitlement, loaded on propaganda
And now we're driving dazed and drunk
I've thought about these lyrics a couple of times but can't quite get a grip on who or what the point is. I tend to think they're saying that this is what America has become but because we hear from the Media, we are convinced it's not as bad as it is. We are dazed and drunk because many are living one way but are being told something different. Does that make sense. I'd like others take on this.
Went down the road to Damascus, the road to Mandalay
Met the ghost of Caesar on the Appian Way
He said, "It's hard to stop this bingeing once you get a taste
But the road to empire is a bloody, stupid waste"
Behold the bitten apple, the power of the tools
But all the knowledge in the world is of no use to fools
And it's a long road out of Eden
Again, want to hear how others interpret this.
As we pick apart some of these songs, I think this is one of them I will be most interested in. It obviously has a bigger meaning to the Eagles themselves, afterall, they did make it the title track.
sodascouts
11-15-2012, 12:49 PM
Music blasting from an SUV
On a bright and sunny day
Rolling down the interstate
In the good old USA
Having lunch at the Petroleum Club
Smoking fine cigars and swapping lies
They say, "Give me 'nother slice of that barbecued brisket
Give me 'nother piece of that pecan pie"
These are the things [the soldier's] thinking about. Can't wait to get back home to Mom's brisket and pie and wants to hang out with his buddies, cruising around, listening to music, etc...
I get a completely different vibe from this - a highly critical one. SUVs are known for being gas guzzlers and environmentally unfriendly - plus, a young soldier would have no interest in one. "Blasting" music is selfish and excessive - you're forcing everyone else to listen to the music pumping out of your car, just like selfish people force their ideas on others. The "Petroleum Club" has nothing to do with soldiers; it is about the oil (petroleum) men who Don accuses of being behind the war that sent the soldier there. They're liars. "Fine cigars" are an extravagance most associated with wealthy men; your average soldier, if he smokes at all, is grabbing a pack of cigarettes. Those men, the lying members of the "Petroleum Club," are the ones talking about eating barbecued brisket and pecan pie, with Southern inflections like "'nother" to localize it. With such phrasing, Don not only portrays a "play the fiddle while Rome burns" mentality amongst the men but also communicates their gluttony for power and money indirectly through their gluttony for food. They get fat while the solidiers pay for it with their lives. Additionally, the use of "traditional" foods can be both ironic and satiric - they are hardly "down home" guys, but they like to think of themselves as such, and present themselves to others as such.
Besides the lyrics, you can hear the shift in tone in the music. Don's voice takes on a harder edge while the music becomes mockingly upbeat.
This verse serves a striking contrast to the first, to show us just how different life is for the people fighting the war than it is for the people Don accuses of engineering it.
Weaving down the American highway
Through the litter and the wreckage, and the cultural junk
Bloated with entitlement, loaded on propaganda
And now we're driving dazed and drunk
I've thought about these lyrics a couple of times but can't quite get a grip on who or what the point is. I tend to think they're saying that this is what America has become but because we hear from the Media, we are convinced it's not as bad as it is. We are dazed and drunk because many are living one way but are being told something different. Does that make sense. I'd like others take on this.I believe this verse is about American's ignorance about the war and their inability to grasp what's important in life. We come back to the metaphor of the highway, a faceless expanse of environmentally unfriendly vehicles. Litter and wreckage are literally environmental hazards on the highway, but also metaphors for the way we treat the environment in general. Don's critique extends beyond the environment to "cultural junk"; he's often commented about how the country isn't what it used to be, especially with regard to the internet. "Cultural junk" can include things like reality TV but also all those worthless sites out there full of gossip, lies, etc. I was surprised by his inclusion of entitlement since he is a Democrat and they are typically very pro-entitlement, but I guess the context is that the entitlement is with regard to the fact that we believe have the right to do whatever we want, even if that hurts others. We are "bloated" by it because we've got such big egos, but also because someone who's bloated moves less easily and is in pain, even if they don't understand that one is leading to the other. Our entitlement reliance is destructive. "Loaded on propaganda" means that Americans are barraged with misinformation by the media and it makes them lose their sense of reality and become "dazed", just like drinking does. This metaphor is extended into the next line, which is also an extension of the highway metaphor: such "drunkenness" makes Americans dangerous, just like a drunk driver.
Went down the road to Damascus, the road to Mandalay
Met the ghost of Caesar on the Appian Way
He said, "It's hard to stop this bingeing once you get a taste
But the road to empire is a bloody, stupid waste"
Behold the bitten apple, the power of the tools
But all the knowledge in the world is of no use to fools
And it's a long road out of Eden
Again, want to hear how others interpret this.
"Caesar" was the honorary surname given to the dictators who ruled the ancient Roman Empire (http://gbgm-umc.org/umw/corinthians/empire.stm) at its height and it became synonymous with the position. I don't believe Don's referring to any specific one here, although many people refer to Julius Caesar simply as "Caesar" because he was the first to use the title, and the most famous. That's possible here as well. I think which Caesar isn't important. What's important for the purposes of this metaphor is that when the Caesars ruled the huge empire of Rome, they connected it all with the famous Roman roads (http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/roman_roads.htm), many of which remain to this day. Romans made quality roads a priority because it got both goods and troops from one place to another quickly; it was part of the reason for their success and ability to maintain control. The Appian Way (http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/30587/Appian-Way) is the most famous of these roads, essential to Rome's efficiency as the center of the most powerful empire in the world.
Damascus was one of the farther regions of the Roman empire, so it gives a sense of the broad scope of that empire. However, more importantly, the road to Damascus is also where Paul received his revelation from Christ - the one that led from him being a prosecutor of Christians to a Christian himself. You can find this in Acts 22 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+22&version=NIV). The Lord said "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?" and rendered him blind. Once Paul got to Damascus, he dedicated himself to spreading the Gospel and regained his sight. Perhaps this reference is supposed to be ironic; the narrator seeks revelation but will find that his journey is fruitless - that spiritual revelations will never be found through empire. Alternatively, his revelation might be the negative one he receives from Caesar.
As for the "Road to Mandalay," that probably refers to Kipling's work "Mandalay (http://www.poemhunter.com/poem/mandalay/)" which served as the basis for a song called "On the Road to Mandalay" popularized by Frank Sinatra. Kipling's poem is about a former soldier for the British Empire waxing nostalgic about his time serving in Mandalay, which was a part of that empire in the nineteenth century. He especially misses a certain lady there. Perhaps this is again meant to be ironic, as Don is critical of empire in this song. He doesn't believe such "warm and fuzzy" feelings are truly possible in empire-building. Another interpretation could be that the soldiers themselves do not feel the cultural hostility as keenly as those back home, although I believe that's a bit of a stretch if my Grandfather's life-long hatred of the Japanese after he fought them in WWII is any indication. Regardless, Caesar's admission that all of his empire-building and the steps the Roman rulers took to build that empire (as signified by those roads) was a "bloody stupid waste" shows us the true futility of it all.
As for "behold the bitten apple," that refers to Adam and Eve's surrendering to temptation in the Garden of Eden and how, even now, we surrender to temptation and make the wrong choices; the evidence and consequences of those choices are the "bitten apple."
"The power of the tools" - Technology and greater knowledge of how to manipulate materials into wondrous inventions has made us much more powerful, but also much more dangerous because "all the knowledge in the world is of no use to fools." You may be able to use knowledge to achieve your ends, but if you do not learn from the mistakes you make with that knowledge, you're a fool and it really hasn't profited you or the world.
"It's a long road out of Eden" - thousands of years after Original Sin, not much has changed; we're still dealing with the consequences of our own selfishness.
Some speculate that the location of Eden was Mesopotamia, currently Iraq. Obviously we can get a lot of ironic mileage out of this. The fact that so much conflict takes place around the (speculative) location of Eden and that so much fossil fuel comes from that region really piles that irony on. Don has talked about reading an article to that effect; we're fighting over Eden in a sense; we're running our cars on Edenic fuel in a sense.... hence, the title.
EaglesKiwi
11-16-2012, 04:54 AM
Here is my ten cents worth, and I have to stress this is only my personal opinion - but this song resonates with me and I can't pass over the opportunity to talk about how I have interpreted it.
Firstly I have to say I think this is a reflection on society as a whole, and of course I'm very aware that there are many many people who aren't like this. So, with that disclaimer:
Weaving down the American highway
Through the litter and the wreckage, and the cultural junk
Bloated with entitlement, loaded on propaganda
And now we're driving dazed and drunk
I see the "American highway" as "the American way of life". (And, even though they are explicitly referring to America here I think it applies to the rest of the western world too. That's why as a non-American I'm going to use the term "we" when talking about this, referring to the general population of the western world). I interpret the litter and wreckage as referring to how far we collectively have moved away from the original ideals of our lives: doing the right thing, equal opportunities for all etc. We might believe in those ideals still, but the overall lifestyle of the nation(s) doesn't necessarily reflect that.
Over the years our concept of what we are "entitled to" - or what we "should have" has changed so drastically. We feel entitled to protect our way of life at any cost - e.g. the man from Florida(?) shooting the young black man who was hanging around the neighbourhood with a "shoot first ask questions later" attitude.
Another example, homes are cluttered with excessive "stuff" that's really not necessary, and much of which doesn't add value to our lives... yet we keep accumulating and yearning for more.
Propaganda here can refer to any source - media, marketing, politicians, social peers, we are deluged with messages and even though we are continuing down the highway of our way of life, we're not really focusing on what it means any more.
Went down the road to Damascus, the road to Mandalay
Met the ghost of Caesar on the Appian Way
He said, "It's hard to stop this bingeing once you get a taste
But the road to empire is a bloody, stupid waste"
I interpreted this as "we went down the road of conversion to our new beliefs (the Road to Damascus). We spread our beliefs to the world through missions and colonisation (the Road to Mandalay), but then we ran away from the consequences of our actions (the Appian Way, where St Peter was escaping from his scheduled crucifixion. Although St Peter then had a vision of Christ and turned round and went back!). The Appian Way was one of - if not the - major roads, which to me ties into the "American Highway" i.e. way of life - originally based on those strong ideals - having spread around the world.
Behold the bitten apple, the power of the tools
But all the knowledge in the world is of no use to fools
And it's a long road out of Eden
In addition to Soda's comments about surrendering to temptation, the apple was from the Tree of Knowledge - they are saying that we have bitten it so we have been given knowledge.
The power of the tools - I think they're referring to history, which is often considered as mankind's great source of knowledge (that we never actually learn from!!).
chaim
11-16-2012, 10:17 AM
The guitar solo is a spine-tingling moment that's for sure.
Prettymaid
11-16-2012, 03:41 PM
It sure is. I wish Joe would have put a nice solo like that on his new album.
sodascouts
11-18-2012, 10:54 PM
I interpreted this as "we went down the road of conversion to our new beliefs (the Road to Damascus). We spread our beliefs to the world through missions and colonisation (the Road to Mandalay), but then we ran away from the consequences of our actions (the Appian Way, where St Peter was escaping from his scheduled crucifixion. Although St Peter then had a vision of Christ and turned round and went back!).
I love this interp, but I'm not familiar with the story of Peter on the Appian Way. Is that in the Apocrypha?
EaglesKiwi
11-21-2012, 04:18 AM
I love this interp, but I'm not familiar with the story of Peter on the Appian Way. Is that in the Apocrypha?
Yes - http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/actspeter.html
and from there it seems to have passed into legend.
I quite like this painting of it:
http://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/annibale-carracci-christ-appearing-to-saint-peter-on-the-appian-way
Ive always been a dreamer
11-21-2012, 01:10 PM
I loved reading all the interpretations of this song. It's funny, but I was thinking of doing something like this for the song during the Long Road Out of Eden celebration week in September, but I just never got around to doing it. :hmm: I hope the moral of this story isn't 'if you wait long enough to do something, someone else will do it for you', but that sure seems to be the case here. :wink: :grin:
sodascouts
11-21-2012, 01:50 PM
Very interesting EK! If Don was referring to Christ appearing to Peter on the Appian Way as it is related in Catholic Apocrypha, perhaps Don believes there is hope we can still turn around and put things right, or at least accept consequences for past decisions and make the right choices in the future. In that interpretation, the ghost of Caesar is this song's version of the apparition of Christ, although Caesar is the example of what NOT to do rather than the example of perfection. Perhaps that is a deliberately ironic choice designed to imply that we currently idolize the wrong people.
EaglesKiwi
11-21-2012, 02:53 PM
Don being deliberately ironic? :hilarious::hilarious:
And yes, I can imagine him thinking we idolize the wrong people.
Houston Debutante
11-26-2012, 06:04 PM
This thread has been a fascinating read. These interpretations are really interesting. Don amazes me with his skill writing lyrics that can give us food for thought like this.
Freypower
11-26-2012, 10:01 PM
I am wary of assuming that the lyrics are entirely by Don because Glenn & Tim have writing credits. I would say that most of them are by him. It is his type of subject matter.
Houston Debutante
11-27-2012, 04:02 PM
You're right, I just assumed he wrote the lyrics but that may not be true. Sorry.
Panmei
12-19-2014, 05:45 AM
To my mind, Long Road out of Eden is brilliant, beautifully well written and spot-on about many aspects: from a critique of the current crisis (driven by oil and profit) that the world is in to the prevalent societal inequalities. But the most important message appears to be the futility of empire building.
chaim
12-19-2014, 12:44 PM
This song still sounds fantastic. Probably always will. BUT, I'm glad that Glenn is a bit softer musically. I realize that some of his stuff may be a bit pie-in-the-sky, but if all the recent Eagles material was just Don ranting about how the world sucks, I would be rather bored!
Freypower
12-19-2014, 05:26 PM
This song still sounds fantastic. Probably always will. BUT, I'm glad that Glenn is a bit softer musically. I realize that some of his stuff may be a bit pie-in-the-sky, but if all the recent Eagles material was just Don ranting about how the world sucks, I would be rather bored!
I know what you're saying here & the point about the two main Eagles songwriters is that their songs offer slightly different perspectives, just as Lennon & McCartney's did.
But on this album I was disappointed that yet again, with the exception of Somebody & How Long, Glenn sang the slow romantic ballads & Don sang the political stuff. As we said at the time, would it have been so wrong for them to swap places for just one song? Glenn can do political songs. Listen to Strange Weather.
chaim
12-19-2014, 05:41 PM
I know what you're saying here & the point about the two main Eagles songwriters is that their songs offer slightly different perspectives, just as Lennon & McCartney's did.
But on this album I was disappointed that yet again, with the exception of Somebody & How Long, Glenn sang the slow romantic ballads & Don sang the political stuff. As we said at the time, would it have been so wrong for them to swap places for just one song? Glenn can do political songs. Listen to Strange Weather.
Doesn't bother me that Glenn doesn't sing political songs on that album, because I'm not interested in political songs, unless it's done like Randy Newman does it. (Not that he has many political songs). I don't care much for lyrics that are just concentrating on things that are bad and the singer sounds angry (including non-political songs like Busy Being Fabulous). There may be too many "the world you live in is bad" songs on that album to my taste.
When I listen to the LROOE album, I'm relieved to hear stuff like You're Not Alone or It's Your World Now amidst all the whining. It sounds so mature and serene. So personally I prefer the Glenn that comes across on that album to Don that comes across on that album, although I appreciate the edge in Don's work.
There are exceptions, of course. Don's Waiting In The Weeds is magnificent. And No More Walks In The Wood succeeds IMO in combining the angry and beautiful elements. It's not just whining. There's depth there.
Having said all that, there are moments in Don's ranting that I enjoy. I like the sarcastic middle bit in Frail Grasp On The Big Picture, although I know many people here hate it. And I do love most of the "angry" songs musically. To me it sounds like a big brother (Glenn) and a little brother (Don).
Not sure if I'll agree with myself tomorrow. We'll see...
Freypower
12-19-2014, 06:09 PM
Now that's interesting. 'Big Brother'& 'Little Brother'?
Throughout their respective solo careers it was the same. Don wrote political songs & Glenn wrote love songs (for the most part) and always it was Don who was praised as the 'mature' songwriter while Glenn was dismissed as a lightweight.
Now you seem to be saying that Glenn sounds 'older' and I assume more thoughtful & considered in songs like It's Your World Now & You Are Not Alone, which deal with deeply personal issues, as opposed to the sneering at people Don despises in Frail Grasp & Business As Usual (I exempt the title track from this because I believe it to be an absolute masterpiece).
It does seem to me that most people on this board prefer the Don they hear in Waiting In The Weeds where he's more reflective & elegiac, instead of the songs where he sounds angry. For me, I like WITW but I don't think it's as great as most people here do. There is something lacking in it which I can't put my finger on. Maybe it's the ferris wheel verse which is my least favourite part of the song; I think he's trying to be too 'clever' there. He's trying to be clever with all the references in the last verse as well, but those work.
In any case it's nice to see some praise of Glenn for his love songs instead of the usual unfair comparisons with Don the Great Lyricist.
chaim
12-20-2014, 06:29 AM
The brother comparison wasn't intented to refer to quality. I can't say who's better. I was thinking of attitudes. I love both Glenn and Don (Glenn a bit more, of course), but when I listen to the album, Don sounds like a young guy (little brother) who thinks he can make the world better by bashing everything. And Glenn sounds like an older guy (big brother) who cares about the world as much as his little brother ("Be part of something good. Leave something good behind"), but knows that expressing anger and bashing doesn't necessarily help. So he sounds calmer and more mature. Or something like that.
Now, I think it's ok when Don sings "we" ("We keep makin' the same mistakes over and over and over and over again"). While I get the point in "They think they know it all. They don't know much of nothing", I'm not a huge fan of lyrics that bash them or you ("You don't have the slightest notion what long-term love is all about"). Although I find the "eternal questions like...." bit very funny and essentially very true. I just don't like the "you" bit.
And, yes, I believe that lyrics like "You're not alone" can be more effective. Lyrics like "never thought I'd see you smile again" or "...that I will always be your friend" don't take much background research, but they say a lot. That's what gives you strentgh IMO - that you know you're not alone - not the fact that someone tells you your local newspaper lies. I think both things are good actually, but if it was just "everything is so bad", it would be very dull.
Having said that, I don't mind Don's rants in small doses, and musically I like them like I said, but IMO it could be torture without the songs I've mentioned or Glenn's instrumental.
Incidentally, I also feel that Gene Simmons is the big brother and Paul Stanley the little brother, but for totally different reasons!
Funk 50
12-20-2014, 07:11 AM
I initially loved Long Road Out Of Eden but, seven years on, I very rarely wish to listen to it.
Joe's guitar solo is magnificant but to hear it, I'd have to endure the lengthy opening that takes me to a place I don't really want to go, listen to those lyrics that are quite unpleasant to hear and then hang around for the conclusion that takes a whole lot longer thaty it should to arrive.
I'm sure, as they were recording it, they saw it as their great new masterpiece but I don't think they should have released it before they'd ironed out the flaws. They played around with the title, they added the eastern music, they changed the tempo, had part 1 and part 2 but it still promises much, much more than it delivers.
Witnessing Henley's progression as a lyric writer, particularly after he lost Glenn as a co-writer you can see how what he wants to say has gradually become more important than how palitable it becomes for the listener. Maybe 20 years earlier Glenn would've encouraged, pursauded or demanded that Don smoothed all those impenetrable references and unpleasant, cutting barbs to make the song more pleasant to listen to.
The easy to listen to Frey tracks are, on the whole, my favourite LROOE tracks and have been for quite some time
UndertheWire
12-20-2014, 07:40 AM
Not sure if I'll agree with myself tomorrow. We'll see...
I love that line.
I don't dislike the LROOE title track but I tend to skip it because it's so long and I want to get on to Somebody.
My biggest problem with the rants is that Don's voice sounds quite unpleasant when he's telling me off. I'd like to hear Don and Glenn swap songs as the love songs might benefit with a little of Don's edge and the rants by having the edges smoothed a little.
Do Something is a song where I prefer Timothy's verses over Don's chorus. With Tim, it's more of a gentle encourage whereas Don makes me feel guilty.
thelastresort
12-20-2014, 09:19 AM
I love the lyrics to LROOE. Like I say with The Last Resort, it's a bit uncomfortable and very provocative to listen to, but Henley does have a point and his ability with words is one of the best in music. My favourite lines from the song are:
'Captains of the old order clinging to the reins, assuring us these aches inside are only growing pains'
'I've been down the road to Damascus, the road to Mandalay; met the ghost of Caesar on the Appian Way. He said it's hard to stop this binging, once you get a taste, but the road to empire is a bloody stupid waste'
I could sit down for the rest of my life and still not come up with something as gifted as that lyrically.
chaim
12-20-2014, 11:36 AM
I love the lyrics to LROOE. Like I say with The Last Resort, it's a bit uncomfortable and very provocative to listen to, but Henley does have a point and his ability with words is one of the best in music. My favourite lines from the song are:
'Captains of the old order clinging to the reins, assuring us these aches inside are only growing pains'
'I've been down the road to Damascus, the road to Mandalay; met the ghost of Caesar on the Appian Way. He said it's hard to stop this binging, once you get a taste, but the road to empire is a bloody stupid waste'
I could sit down for the rest of my life and still not come up with something as gifted as that lyrically.
Yeah, it's a well-written lyric, and I like it. But overall I feel there's too much negativity from Don on this album, sung in an angry, condescending way. Freypower, of course, will be delighted to hear that Glenn harmonizing with Don on those "captains of the old order" etc. bits is spine-tingling to me.
chaim
12-20-2014, 12:30 PM
By the way, does anyone know who wrote what in this song? I remember Glenn saying something about him and Don starting it and Don and Steuart building it into this masterpiece later. Or was it Glenn being modest again? Steuart's name isn't in the credits. On the other hand, what did Timothy contribute to the writing?
VAisForEagleLovers
12-20-2014, 01:11 PM
... He said it's hard to stop this binging, once you get a taste, but the road to empire is a bloody stupid waste'
I could sit down for the rest of my life and still not come up with something as gifted as that lyrically.
So understated, but the use of the word 'bloody' here is genius. The British meaning and the literal meaning are both meant here.
My favorite lines are the first few:
Moon shining down through the palms
Shadows moving on the sand
Somebody whispering the twenty-third psalm
Dusty rifle in his trembling hands
Somebody trying just to stay alive
He got promises to keep
Over the ocean in america
Far away and fast asleep
I now work with many people who fought in both wars in Iraq, and some in Afghanistan, and I have to say, it adds a very different perspective for me compared to when this song first came out. Every time I listen to the song now, I envision some of these guys sitting somewhere with a rifle in hand and scared to death and I always wonder what they were thinking, how they felt.
Freypower
12-20-2014, 07:33 PM
The brother comparison wasn't intented to refer to quality. I can't say who's better. I was thinking of attitudes. I love both Glenn and Don (Glenn a bit more, of course), but when I listen to the album, Don sounds like a young guy (little brother) who thinks he can make the world better by bashing everything. And Glenn sounds like an older guy (big brother) who cares about the world as much as his little brother ("Be part of something good. Leave something good behind"), but knows that expressing anger and bashing doesn't necessarily help. So he sounds calmer and more mature. Or something like that.
Now, I think it's ok when Don sings "we" ("We keep makin' the same mistakes over and over and over and over again"). While I get the point in "They think they know it all. They don't know much of nothing", I'm not a huge fan of lyrics that bash them or you ("You don't have the slightest notion what long-term love is all about"). Although I find the "eternal questions like...." bit very funny and essentially very true. I just don't like the "you" bit.
And, yes, I believe that lyrics like "You're not alone" can be more effective. Lyrics like "never thought I'd see you smile again" or "...that I will always be your friend" don't take much background research, but they say a lot. That's what gives you strentgh IMO - that you know you're not alone - not the fact that someone tells you your local newspaper lies. I think both things are good actually, but if it was just "everything is so bad", it would be very dull.
Having said that, I don't mind Don's rants in small doses, and musically I like them like I said, but IMO it could be torture without the songs I've mentioned or Glenn's instrumental.
Incidentally, I also feel that Gene Simmons is the big brother and Paul Stanley the little brother, but for totally different reasons!
That's OK chaim; I knew what you meant.
Freypower
12-20-2014, 07:48 PM
I don't know how to quote multiple posts & respond to everyone so I will do it like this:
To VA, I think the use of 'bloody' here is a masterstroke. I grew up with the word as it's used here & in the UK & so I'm used to it.
To Funk50 Glenn co-wrote the song Long Road Out Of Eden & as has been said before, it shouldn't be automatically assumed that he had no hand in the lyrics. The fact that he's doing those wonderful backing vocals (thanks chaim; I am indeed delighted that you agree with me on that) would tend to indicate that he may have had some hand in the lyrics. You say that years earlier he may have insisted that some of the lyrics be made more palatable. If he didn't do it with The Last Resort why would he do it with LROOE?
To chaim again perhaps Steuart helped with the arrangement but he's not listed in the credits as you say. I don't know about Tim's credit. Surely it can't just be for that little flourish of bass at the end.
UTW for what it's worth I agree with you about Do Something. As wilth good old Teenage Jail, I really don't know why it was so necessary for Don to sing part of it.
I think the song is brilliant & I think it's a shame that some people dislike the Middle Eastern section, given what the song is about. I just wish I had more information about who plays what on it. In HOTE Glenn says that he went to the electric piano & Don went to the drums.... I very much doubt that Don played drums on this song & if Glenn played electric piano he didn't do so live. You can hear him playing acoustic.
shunlvswx
12-20-2014, 10:11 PM
Glenn might had played the electric piano too. He has done that before where he's doesn't play the same instrument live that he does on the record. I Can't Tell You Why comes to my mind.
chaim
12-21-2014, 06:46 AM
Indeed, you don't get a credit for adding some cool bass licks during the fadeout. Besides with this logic the Eagles version of Outlaw Man should read "Blue/Meisner".:hilarious:
I had forgotten the "Glenn went to the electric piano/Timothy grabbed an acoustic guitar" story. Tim's name in the credits makes sense to me now that I was reminded of this. He was there when they came up with the initial idea, probably suggesting chords or/and rhythms or/and melodies when they started writing it. The chords and different sections must've already been there in some form when Steuart started to contribute, because if he had suggested a new section, the surely his name would be there.
Funk 50
12-21-2014, 07:03 PM
To Funk50 Glenn co-wrote the song Long Road Out Of Eden & as has been said before, it shouldn't be automatically assumed that he had no hand in the lyrics. The fact that he's doing those wonderful backing vocals (thanks chaim; I am indeed delighted that you agree with me on that) would tend to indicate that he may have had some hand in the lyrics. You say that years earlier he may have insisted that some of the lyrics be made more palatable. If he didn't do it with The Last Resort why would he do it with LROOE?.
I don't find The Last Resort in the least bit unpalatable. I believe there was friction between Glenn and Don about subject matter in Eagles songs, if you want big sellers you can't have controversial lyrics or subject matter, at least you couldn't in the 70s.
Don has always been a a great lyricist, from Witchy Woman onwards, as his songs are instantly memorable, Glenn's songs are too, even during the 70s, without YouTube and all the lyric sites to learn from, people knew all the words to the Eagles songs because they were so well written.
These days some, certainly not all Don's songs seem to be an exercise in cramming in as many literary references as he can get away in a single tune. It sounds like he's agonized over his lyrics for months, which does have the effect of making them something to study rather than singalong with.
Since the Eagles are now big enough to survive, openly criticizing the President Of The United States and supporting the ostracized Dixie Chicks, who weren't, they are obviously allowed to be a lot more controversial and challenging in their subject matter, without it affecting their market value.
Until The Garden Of Allah there really was nothing but universal praise for Don's lyrical aptitude, so you can understand the other guys not being too critical about it, especially if it is going to cause avoidable friction.
I find the swearing and unpleasant language unfortunate.
The embarrassment of Joe's ILBT's :blush: at full blast after I'd just bought the album brand new.
It's not so bad in rockers like Joe's, It's Hard To Keep A Good Man Down and Band Played On but Damn It Rose, (some puffed up little fart), I suppose Don wants us to feel uncomfortable. Funnily enough, Bernie's, Vile And Profane Man opts for the less profane "break wind".
Best unintentional profanity, if you're English, is Glenn's wonderful Soul Searching "We gotta Search Our Souls"... I think that's how he spells it.
I do like Business As Usual. Is the last "soul sucking" actually "soul sucking world" as it proclaims in the lyrics?
Funk 50
12-21-2014, 07:42 PM
We don't have any evidence that there was 'friction' over the lyrical content. The Last Resort was on their biggest selling album & as far as I know Glenn fully supported its inclusion. The fact that it was performed for the HFO reunion would suggest that. Also I disagree that you couldn't be controversial in the 70s if you wanted to sell a lot of records. Look at Alice Cooper, and he's probably a mild example..
From all I've heard Glenn loved the lyrics to The Last Resort but they didn't include all the lyrics Don wrote. The same goes for Long Road Out Of Eden. I'm sure Glenn, at the very least, helped out with the editing.
I think the Eagles and specifically Glenn wanted to sell a lot more records than Alice Cooper.
Funk 50
12-26-2014, 08:13 AM
This quote from Don Henley, talking about Do Something, sounded just a little bit odd to me.
I thought about singing it for a while then I said "nah, you know, I want you to sing this Tim," and it's a nice country flavoured ballad. We had an outside musician come in and play the pedal-steel guitar on it.
It's the "outside musician" bit. In the past the Eagles would always be willing to give credit where it's due. Who is this un-named outside musician?.
The whole Long Road Out Of Eden album seems to be cloaked in secrecy. Any musician, asked to play on an Eagles record would surely be shouting it from the rooftops, yet we've heard nothing.
I can only think that they were all sworn to secrecy. Without the live performances we wouldn't even be sure which guitar solos Joe plays. In some cases we still don't. Luckily their voices are distinctive enough so we at least know who's singing lead.
From the live performances, I know it's Steuart's lead guitar on No Walks In The Wood, I Don't Want To Hear Anymore Busy Being Fabulous and How Long (despite the video). Steuart's mandolin on Waiting In The Weeds and e bow guitar on the title track and Glenn has credited Will Hollis with the piano at the end of Waiting In The Weeds and that's about it
Somebody, Guilty Of The Crime and Long Road Out Of Eden are lead by Joe's guitar.
I suspect it's Joe playing the solos on Center Of The Universe and Business As Usual but, 7 years on, I'm still hoping for confirmation.
Ive always been a dreamer
12-26-2014, 12:21 PM
Although I think us fans would love to know who wrote the which lyrics on the songs, we only have the various little tidbits that members may mention in an occasional interview. Unfortunately, it's always been that way with the band. As far as the musicians on LROOE, I would love to have more details about who played which instruments on the various song, but I don't think there is that much secrecy involved in who played which instruments on the album, including Greg Leisz on pedal steel guitar. The album's liner notes list the musicians as follows:
GLENN FREY - GUITAR, KEYBOARDS, BASS AND VOCALS
DON HENLEY - DRUMS, PERCUSSION, GUITAR AND VOCALS
JOE WALSH - GUITAR, KEYBOARD AND VOCALS
TIMOTHY B. SCHMIT - BASS AND VOCALS
STEUART SMITH - GUITAR, KEYBOARDS, MANDOLIN
SCOTT CRAGO - DRUMS AND PERCUSSION
RICHARD F.W. DAVIS - KEYBOARDS AND PROGRAMMING
MICHAEL THOMPSON - KEYBOARDS, ACCORDIAN AND TROMBONE
WILL HOLLIS - KEYBOARDS
AL GARTH - ALTO SAX AND VIOLIN
BILL ARMSTRONG - TRUMPET
CHRIS MOSTERT - TENOR AND ALTO SAX
GREG SMITH - BARITONE SAX
GREG LEISZ - PEDAL STEEL
LENNY CASTRO - PERCUSSION
LUIS CONTI - PERCUSSION
thelastresort
12-26-2014, 02:47 PM
Anyone know what Glenn played bass on?
Freypower
12-26-2014, 08:36 PM
Anyone know what Glenn played bass on?
Well, no. That's the point. Individual credits aren't listed. I find the lack of information the most disappointing part about the album.
Interesting that Lenny Castro is on it - I saw him with Joe Bonamassa recently.
thelastresort
12-26-2014, 08:49 PM
Well, no. That's the point. Individual credits aren't listed...
I know, I was asking more in hope than expectation (I thought with so many Glenn aficionados on here someone may have caught something on it ;))
Ive always been a dreamer
12-27-2014, 12:50 AM
tlr - I don't know which track(s) Glenn played bass on either, but, it makes sense to me that it would be one or more of the tracks he wrote by himself. If I am correct, that narrows it down to No More Cloudy Days, You Are Not Alone, and I Dreamed There Was No War. I could be wrong, but I don't even hear any bass on IDTWNW.
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