Am I the only one who likes Teenage Jail?

[OntheBorder74]

I was just wondering who genuinely likes Teenage Jail, the song Felder branded Glenn's worst songwriting effort and that Don admitted to finding funny. Marc Eliott in his book also questioned what the song is really about.

However I love the song, it my be a little simple but it better than say the Disco Strangler with it's lyrics. I love Glenn's heavy guitar riff because it sounds so badass. The synthesizer solo is also a great bit of ingenuity and even though Don F hates his 'lingering' solo I think sounds alright, it matches the slow nature of the song. Also love the songs where Henley and Frey both sing leads

Does anyone else appreciate this gem from the Long Run album, though it seems its been criticised by everyone involved.

[NightMistBlue]

I like Glenn's badass guitar and Don F.'s wicked solo. The vocals are cool, but I'm not a big fan of the synth solo. The song is an odd duck for sure, but it's interesting.

[GlennLover]

I certainly don't love the song & it's not one of my favourites, but I do like it. Disco Strangler, on the other hand, is the only Eagles' Song that I routinely skip. I don't skip TJ.

[AlreadyGone95]

Count me in as one who likes it, though it's far from being one of my favorites. I love the heavy, slow guitar riff. It reminds me of Black Sabbath and other early doom metal bands. The lyrics are ok. The vocals themselves, I enjoy Don's, but I'm not too fond of Glenn's. I like both the synth and guitar solos. The song is very different and out there, but I think that's part of the appeal.

[Ive always been a dreamer]

Well, although the I like the song, it won’t make it on my “best of” compilation. I like Glenn’s vocals, and the lyrics and guitars are very effective in creating a “teenage jail”. I’m not crazy about Don’s echo in the second verse, but it’s effective in achieving a mood of teenage turmoil. I enjoy listening to the song when I play the album, but that's the only time I ever hear it.

[sodascouts]

It's the second-to-worst song the Eagles ever released, IMHO. I'm glad there are some people who like it, but I'm not among them!

[Freypower]

I regard it as a waste of Glenn's talents. If he had to do a song like this he could have least have sung the entire song. My least favourite part is the heavy breath Don takes before 'where something is always for sale'. I sometimes like to hear singers breathing between notes but not in this case. I find it overproduced. The lyrics are just banal & uninteresting.

On the other hand after all the strings & slow ballads on the previous album this song at least attempts to vary the band's sound & make them sound more contemporary. What a shame more effort wasn't put into the lyrics.

[chaim]

I don't think Don H's "funny" comment meant that the song is good or bad. After hearing him say that it became obvious to me that his "menacing" talking style in the choruses was a joke. Seems that they were having fun in the studio, which I suppose didn't happen often with the Eagles, especially while making The Long Run. Maybe it was a necessary "let's get crazy and loose" moment in a very stressful recording environment.

Still, did it have to be released? No, but I'm glad it was, because I have always loved this song. As a teenager I found it very menacing (well, still do). I actually love Glenn's vocal. I think his voice makes the verse more menacing that an actually menacing voice would. "Twisted" is the word that comes to mind when I try to describe the dark riff and Glenn's voice.

The fact that there's humour doesn't make a song bad. George Harrison once said that his more serious sounding Beatles songs were sort of jokes - including Within You Without You. Even though only he could perhaps see that.

I still don't know what on earth Don F was talking about in his book when he bashed the solo. Was he thinking of a different song? His solo is fantastic, especially in the context of this wild song, but purely as a guitar solo too.

[Funk 50]

I wouldn't call it a "gem" but I enjoy it a lot more than the fillers on their early albums. It's one of the few Eagles songs where the solos are better than the vocal parts. Every album needs contrasts.

[UndertheWire]

I don't mind it - at least I don't skip it - and I think it gets more grief than it deserves. I think it's one of Felder's better guitar solos but I guess he doesn't like it because it's less perfect than some.

What I don't understand is why The Disco Strangler isn't universally reviled.

[NOLA]

I really enjoy TJ as one of the deeper tracks in the band's catalog. I like the duet between Don H. and Glenn, and Don F.'s guitar solo was one of his better efforts on record at that time, IMHO.

[Brooke]

It's ok. I don't skip it, but it would never make a favorites list for me!

[OntheBorder74]

Actually now that I think about it I agree the breath he takes before that line and the echo on it is pretty bad but love Glenn's vocals on the chorus, sounds multi-tracked

[rockel101]

Yeah guitar work by Joe Walsh is phenomenal. my favorite Eagles tune. The synthesizer just blows me away. The lyrics are just made for my teenage years.I wish there was a live video somewhere.

[FreyFollower]

I seem to recall Glenn saying he had his youngest brother (who was a teen at the time) in mind when writing and working on that song. It's good to know it still has appeal with young people! I always found it funny! (I was a teenager then, too!).

[Freypower]

Actually now that I think about it I agree the breath he takes before that line and the echo on it is pretty bad but love Glenn's vocals on the chorus, sounds multi-tracked

Teenage Jail doesn't have a chorus. Which lines are you referring to? If it's 'you're lost in a teenage jail' that's Don, not Glenn. I would call that the bridge, because it only occurs once.

Of course Felder would criticise it, guitar solo or not, because it was sung by Glenn (mostly). I have no idea why Don had to have any lead vocals on the song at all. It's not as if he is absent from the rest of the album in that regard. The echoing of 'you're not like the others' etc just gets on my nerves & I loathe the part I've just mentioned.

[New Kid In Town]

I don't care for the song. I never liked it. IMHO it is one of their three worst songs. It is obvious they were tired and unable to come up with better songs for the LR. I am also not a fan of DS and TS. They are my three least favorite songs and they are all on one album !

[cosec3791]

I wish there was a live video somewhere.

Don't think they ever performed this song at a concert which was recorded. Apparently it was only performed once, at Capital Center in 1979. Which is speculative, and most probably never recorded.

[OntheBorder74]

Teenage Jail doesn't have a chorus. Which lines are you referring to? If it's 'you're lost in a teenage jail' that's Don, not Glenn. I would call that the bridge, because it only occurs once.

Of course Felder would criticise it, guitar solo or not, because it was sung by Glenn (mostly). I have no idea why Don had to have any lead vocals on the song at all. It's not as if he is absent from the rest of the album in that regard. The echoing of 'you're not like the others' etc just gets on my nerves & I loathe the part I've just mentioned.

The lines I am referring to are the Glenn's parts 'stare out the window, you can't make the time go..etc' I still like Felder's solo and the guitar tone with it's gritty tremolo effect, though I find Don's sparse drum beat really limited for what should of been a harder rocking drum part.

[Freypower]

The lines I am referring to are the Glenn's parts 'stare out the window, you can't make the time go..etc' I still like Felder's solo and the guitar tone with it's gritty tremolo effect, though I find Don's sparse drum beat really limited for what should of been a harder rocking drum part.

That's the verse. It isn't a chorus. The song has no chorus at all. If ''you're lost in a teenage jail' was repeated, that would be the chorus. Interestingly, a couple of other songs on this album have no chorus either - King Of Hollywood & The Sad Café (people may disagree but I don't think repeating a song title a couple of times constitutes a chorus). It could also be argued that both The Long Run & I Can't Tell You Why barely have choruses either.

There are some songs which famously start with the chorus (She Loves You by the Beatles).

As for the drums I would suggest the tempo is too slow for them to be 'hard rocking'.

[OntheBorder74]

That's the verse. It isn't a chorus. The song has no chorus at all. If ''you're lost in a teenage jail' was repeated, that would be the chorus. Interestingly, a couple of other songs on this album have no chorus either - King Of Hollywood & The Sad Café (people may disagree but I don't think repeating a song title a couple of times constitutes a chorus). It could also be argued that both The Long Run & I Can't Tell You Why barely have choruses either.

There are some songs which famously start with the chorus (She Loves You by the Beatles).

As for the drums I would suggest the tempo is too slow for them to be 'hard rocking'.

I was thinking that, as you said with She loves you, that the song started with the chorus as it is bigger and multi tracked or harmony laden while don's part is definitely a lead vocal such as in a verse. The album felt like they had such lack of ideas or structure that it has a lot of songs that in my opinion go nowhere or never come to a satisfying conclusion.

[Freypower]

I was thinking that, as you said with She loves you, that the song started with the chorus as it is bigger and multi tracked or harmony laden while don's part is definitely a lead vocal such as in a verse. The album felt like they had such lack of ideas or structure that it has a lot of songs that in my opinion go nowhere or never come to a satisfying conclusion.


If the beginning of Teenage Jail was a chorus those words ('stare out the window' etc) would be repeated later in the song., They are not. The melody is repeated later '('you're not like the others'). That is the second verse. The sound of it & how it is produced has nothing to do with its structure.

Choruses are repeated at least once, as in 'welcome to the Hotel California'. Both the words & the melody are repeated in a chorus.Teenage Jail has no words repeated at all except for the one line 'you're lost in a teenage jail' & in my view that is the bridge between the two verses.


https://www.forwardpoetry.co.uk/chorus.php

[peneumbra]

"Sad Cafe" has a chorus - well, it's been performed that way, at least one time. And I've seen it done with a very long bridge as well. :cheers:

[Freypower]

"Sad Cafe" has a chorus - well, it's been performed that way, at least one time. And I've seen it done with a very long bridge as well. :cheers:
What do you consider constitutes the chorus of The Sad Café? The title is repeated a couple of times. That is a refrain, not a chorus.

[peneumbra]

It was a small live show, somewhere in So Ca, I don't recall where or when. An acoustic take, which I thought came off really well. Could've been maybe at the Golden Bear, down at Huntington Beach?:grouphug:

[Freypower]

It was a small live show, somewhere in So Ca, I don't recall where or when. An acoustic take, which I thought came off really well. Could've been maybe at the Golden Bear, down at Huntington Beach?:grouphug:


You didn't answer my question. I asked what part of the song you considered to be the chorus.

Never mind.

I also find it interesting to hear that the Eagles were doing 'small live shows' in 1979 or 1980. By then they were one of the biggest bands in the world.

[peneumbra]

Is it just me, or do you have a snarky asshole attitude?
Maybe it's just me.

I don't recall what the chorus was for "Sad Cafe," but it was something. And it wasn't the Eagles that did the gig that night at The Golden Bear, or whatever club it was. It was Henley, Waddy Wachtel on lead, Don Francisco, I think, on percussion, a couple of others...

A lot of big L.A. acts played small clubs here and there around town (e.g., Neil Young at The Ash Grove or even at The Palomino, an old-time country hangout in North Hollywood. (The Tubes, famously, entered a "local talent" competition at The Pal under the name Fee Waybill And Heifer's Dream, and won.)

Anyway, at this mostly acoustic gig, Henley was singing lead and playing a Martin. It was a weeknight, and there were maybe 20 or 30 people in the audience, mostly musicians from Orange County and thereabouts. "Sad Cafe" hadn't been released yet, so people were hearing it for the first time. It was a really sad song; I thought it was maybe about The Formosa Cafe, which could be a really sad place, in a Blade Runner sort of way...8-)

[Freypower]

Is it just me, or do you have a snarky asshole attitude?
Maybe it's just me.

I don't recall what the chorus was for "Sad Cafe," but it was something. And it wasn't the Eagles that did the gig that night at The Golden Bear, or whatever club it was. It was Henley, Waddy Wachtel on lead, Don Francisco, I think, on percussion, a couple of others...

A lot of big L.A. acts played small clubs here and there around town (e.g., Neil Young at The Ash Grove or even at The Palomino, an old-time country hangout in North Hollywood. (The Tubes, famously, entered a "local talent" competition at The Pal under the name Fee Waybill And Heifer's Dream, and won.)



Anyway, at this mostly acoustic gig, Henley was singing lead and playing a Martin. It was a weeknight, and there were maybe 20 or 30 people in the audience, mostly musicians from Orange County and thereabouts. "Sad Cafe" hadn't been released yet, so people were hearing it for the first time. It was a really sad song; I thought it was maybe about The Formosa Cafe, which could be a really sad place, in a Blade Runner sort of way...8-)


If I am snarky because you made a statement, I asked you to clarify, you ignored my request, and then basically were not able to elaborate any further, then I suppose I am snarky. I thought what I asked was legitimate considering you were the one who raised it. If you couldn't remember, fair enough, but you seemed pretty confident about it. I'm sorry I asked. I should have noted the bit about 'performed once'.

[peneumbra]

No problem. ;)

[OntheBorder74]

If the beginning of Teenage Jail was a chorus those words ('stare out the window' etc) would be repeated later in the song., They are not. The melody is repeated later '('you're not like the others'). That is the second verse. The sound of it & how it is produced has nothing to do with its structure.

Choruses are repeated at least once, as in 'welcome to the Hotel California'. Both the words & the melody are repeated in a chorus.Teenage Jail has no words repeated at all except for the one line 'you're lost in a teenage jail' & in my view that is the bridge between the two verses.


https://www.forwardpoetry.co.uk/chorus.php

Actually it dosen't specifically have be the same lyrics as per the definition below, it can still be the same melody along with the main guitar riff, in many ways the guitar riff that underscores it indicates it's the hook or chorus of the song
noun
1.
a part of a song which is repeated after each verse.
"strong guitar-driven songs with big, big choruses"
synonyms: refrain, burden, strain; informalhook
"they sang the chorus again"

[chaim]

IMHO it's more important that people know they're talking about the same section in the song than to find out whose definition is correct. As for Teenage Jail, "refrain", "bridge" and "chorus" are all fine by me. Personally I'd prefer the term chorus, because it appears right after the verses - although with no vocals the second time. As far as I know, the "bridge" usually comes later in the song and comes after two verses and two choruses. But I don't care what it's called.

[Freypower]

IMHO it's more important that people know they're talking about the same section in the song than to find out whose definition is correct. As for Teenage Jail, "refrain", "bridge" and "chorus" are all fine by me. Personally I'd prefer the term chorus, because it appears right after the verses - although with no vocals the second time. As far as I know, the "bridge" usually comes later in the song and comes after two verses and two choruses. But I don't care what it's called.


But OTB is talking about 'stare out the window'. That's the first verse. She's not talking about 'you're lost in a teenage jail'. Also it's my understanding that a chorus has words.

Agree to disagree. I obviously have a completely different interpretation of the way this song is structured.

[Ive always been a dreamer]

The differences between terms related to song structure such as chorus, refrains, hooks, and bridges can get really confusing. We’ve had similar discussions on the board before and IIRC, it’s hard to find consistent definitions of these terms. However, I tend to agree with Freypower’s interpretations. I think of a chorus as a vocal and musical melody that repeats at least once after the verses e.g. ‘There’s gonna be a heartache tonight, heartache tonight, I know’. I consider a refrain to be a phrase(s) that repeats itself within a verse, often at the end e.g. ‘Inside the Sad Cafe’. I also think these two can be examples of a hook, which I think of as a catch phrase. And, to me, a bridge is a transitional vocal and musical melody that occurs once during the song between verses and/or the chorus e.g. ‘Oh, expecting to fly, we would meet on that beautiful shore in the sweet by and by’.

So, as I define these terms, like Freypower, I would consider the lines in the middle of Teenage Jail to be a bridge between two verses and no chorus. I realize others may have different interpretations though because I’m not sure there is a definitive answer. I think it’s an interesting discussion though and as Freypower mentioned, most of the songs on The Long Run album do not follow the conventional song structure so there is a lot of room for analysis. So, if there is interest and continued discussion about these songs in this thread, I’ll be happy to move the posts over to its own thread.

[Freypower]

The differences between terms related to song structure such as chorus, refrains, hooks, and bridges can get really confusing. We’ve had similar discussions on the board before and IIRC, it’s hard to find consistent definitions of these terms. However, I tend to agree with Freypower’s interpretations. I think of a chorus as a vocal and musical melody that repeats at least once after the verses e.g. ‘There’s gonna be a heartache tonight, heartache tonight, I know’. I consider a refrain to be a phrase(s) that repeats itself within a verse, often at the end e.g. ‘Inside the Sad Cafe’. I also think these two can be examples of a hook, which I think of as a catch phrase. And, to me, a bridge is a transitional vocal and musical melody that occurs once during the song between verses and/or the chorus e.g. ‘Oh, expecting to fly, we would meet on that beautiful shore in the sweet by and by’.

So, as I define these terms, like Freypower, I would consider the lines in the middle of Teenage Jail to be a bridge between two verses and no chorus. I realize others may have different interpretations though because I’m not sure there is a definitive answer. I think it’s an interesting discussion though and as Freypower mentioned, most of the songs on The Long Run album do not follow the conventional song structure so there is a lot of room for analysis. So, if there is interest and continued discussion about these songs in this thread, I’ll be happy to move the posts over to its own thread.


There are two areas of disagreement. One is over what I consider the first verse, which begins 'stare out the window'. OTB thinks that is a chorus. The second is that she thinks the middle section which you have just discussed is a verse.

[chaim]

Personally I'd call this the first verse:

Stare out the window,
You can't make the time go
You don't even know why you're here
Wait for the weekend to go off the deep end
And make everything disappear

And this the second verse:

You're not like your mothers.
You're not like the others
You're not quite like anyone else,
They don't even know you,
Got nothing to show you,
So get something good for yourself

The bit Don sings the first time, and which Glenn plays a synth solo over the second time, I guess could be called many things. Refrain, chorus and bridge, which have been mentioned, are all fine by me. It's in the grey area a bit. Perhaps they were thinking of it as a chorus when they wrote the backing track, but later decided not to have a proper chorus and play it as an instrumental the second tiime.

My point was that I wish we wouldn't spend too much time arguing about terms - at least I hope it doesn't take the focus out of what we wanted to say about those sections in the first place. Freypower said "agree to disagree". I second that. Or perhaps it could be a separate topic, since it is important that everyone knows what others mean when they use a word like "refrain".