Consideration of What Constitutes So-Called 'Overrated,' 'Overplayed' Music

[WS82Classics]

This subject has been in my head in one manner or another for a while, but recently had the chance to come out in discussions in the Eagles LP Survivor thread. Since there was somebody who had indicated an interest in discussing it elsewhere, I bring this topic of conversation to everyone's attention here and now.

'Over-played' songs--Easy. Songs that are played to death on satellite and terrestrial radio, almost in an 'every-hour-on-the-hour' manner.

'Over-rated' songs--Songs that every music 'critic' beats to a blooded pulp, placing emphasis well beyond the original value of the song. Critics that radio people take heed of when considering their playlists, which is why most of radio today sounds very cut & dried and copy-pasted. The concept of over-ratedness underpins the concept of over-playedness. That much is true.

Here's some examples I have in mind when I consider these particular terms.

Beatles: "Eleanor Rigby" and "Hey Jude"
Dire Straits: It doesn't get much more over-rated than "Money for Nothing."
Eagles: "Hotel California" and "Take it Easy"
Led Zeppelin: "Stairway to Heaven" and "Whole Lotta Love"(I switch them off every time, and they're not terrible songs in their own right)
Lynyrd Skynyrd: "Sweet Home Alabama" is one of the most over-rated, over-played songs of all time. I love “Free Bird,” so that really doesn't count IMO.
Queen: "Bohemian Rhapsody" and "We Will Rock You/We are the Champions"
REM: "It's the End of the World as We Know it" and "Losing My Religion"
Who: "Baba O'Riley" and "Won't Get Fooled Again"

For the record, I am very partial to the Eagles' and REM's brand of 'over-rated' music, as opposed to all the others. 'Over-rated and 'over-played' does not necessarily mean the music itself is bad so much as it indicates that people and stations have a way of driving certain songs into the ground.

Band wise, Pink Floyd and the Rolling Stones, while great bands, are about as over-rated and over-played as they come. AC/DC fits that bill, too, but I'm nowhere near as fond of them as I am of the other two.

There are probably many other songs that fit the definition of 'over-rated' and 'over-played' that I'm not thinking of right now. I'd be curious what songs/bands others on here would use those terms to describe.

[Jonny Come Lately]

I am glad you have created this topic – I really enjoy in-depth discussions like this. I agree with your point in saying that while being overrated and overplayed are not the same thing, they are somewhat related. I’ll start by going through some of the artists and songs you mentioned and giving my own thoughts about them.

Eagles: My strongest feeling with regard to overrated/underrated Eagles songs is that a number of their deep cuts are significantly underrated, particularly from the first three albums. The only song that I think is genuinely overrated is Love Will Keep Us Alive – I only wish that the IMO far superior Get Over It had received the amount of love/attention it was been given by the band from HFO onwards. I also think it’s a shame that it so overshadows Learn To Be Still, which I find very underrated. I understand that they probably wanted to include another Tim vocal in the setlist, but I prefer both of his LROOE tracks to it (I really enjoyed seeing Don’s backing singers perform IDWTHAM). I personally don’t consider either Hotel California or Take It Easy to be overrated, although I can sympathise more with the former view – I think this is because TIE is my outright favourite from the debut album, whereas there are 2-3 songs on HC which I think are as good as and possibly better than the title track.

Dire Straits: I can understand why you nominate Money For Nothing, but for me the big one is Walk Of Life. I can understand why it became a hit (it is certainly catchy) but it is usually cited as one of their best songs when to me it is an inferior ‘pop’ version of Industrial Disease, a song which is much less repetitive and has far more creative lyrics. I enjoy it if I listen to it occasionally, but otherwise I tire of it quickly. I would also suggest So Far Away, which I think is a likeable but unremarkable song – it’s too long and doesn’t really go anywhere. What is strange is that apart from these 2-3 songs I think Dire Straits is an underrated band, especially their first two albums. There are wonderful songs from this era like Single Handed Sailor and Wild West End which seem virtually forgotten. The debut is usually reduced to Sultans of Swing (although I definitely do not consider it overrated, as it is the album’s outstanding track) and Communique is either maligned or ignored.

Lynyrd Skynyrd: I enjoy Sweet Home Alabama although I agree it is overrated. I’ve seen some lists of classic rock songs which place it in the top three, which I think is definitely too high (it isn’t in my top three Skynyrd songs! My top three would be Free Bird, which I’m with you about, plus Simple Man and That Smell).

R.E.M.: I like them but I am only really a casual fan, mainly of the Automatic for the People era. I do think Everybody Hurts is overrated – I’m sorry to say this but I’ve never really felt any emotional connection with the lyrics. My parents had a compilation by The Corrs which featured this song, so I heard their version first, which I never liked and I think that might have influenced my view. Another ‘problem song’ for me is Shiny Happy People, which I can’t stand, although from what I’ve read there are other fans who don’t like it so it’s probably not overrated.

Pink Floyd: It’s funny because I think they actually receive less airplay over here, and the only two songs that I think are seriously overplayed in the UK are Money and Another Brick In The Wall Part 2. My love of the former has never wavered and I personally don’t find it overrated. Another Brick however is a different matter – it’s not in my top five songs from The Wall, and I don’t like how it is always included in ‘best songs lists’ in favour of better and more representative Floyd pieces such as Time or Us And Them, while the band is reduced to the lyric ‘we don’t need no education’.

Led Zeppelin: Similar to my love of the Eagles as I enjoy the vast majority of their songs and there are very few I would consider calling overrated. I have to say Stairway To Heaven isn’t hasn’t lost any of its magic for me. Whole Lotta Love I can understand more, as it’s more straightforward hard rock and less enigmatic. I think it comes down to some extent to your opinion on the un-radio friendly middle section (I enjoy it myself, but I think puts off a lot of people). I must admit when I first heard Kashmir I wasn’t that impressed, but it suddenly ‘clicked’ for me and I would not call it overrated now. I did consider Fool In The Rain, which I find somehow not very Led Zeppelin-ish (I consider Thank You and That’s The Way to be every bit as ‘Zepp-ish’ as Black Dog or Immigrant Song, so it’s not about being ‘hard rock’, I can’t quite put my finger on what it is), but I still kind of like it.

There is a lot more I can say but I think that’s probably enough to be getting on with…

[thelastresort]

I hear if you look in the dictionary for 'Overplayed' there's just a picture of the AC/DC logo, and if you look for 'Overrated' there's a photo of Iron Maiden...

I'll put my neck on the line here, I'm not normally a huge fan of signature songs. Stairway to Heaven I can listen to, and Page's guitar solo in the middle I think is one of the most underrated in all of rock music, but I don't really feel the same attachment to it as I do for the likes of Kashmir. Free Bird is a beautiful song and I love the lonesome slide guitar (which I'm presuming is Gary Rossington), but the solos never really did it for me as I've never felt like they really built to anything or progressed anywhere. Hotel California, whilst I like it as a song, probably doesn't make my top 30 favourite Eagles tracks and whilst I could listen to the outro all day, I much prefer their laid-back country work to any hard or typical rock songs they put out. All of the above songs and the other examples like BOC's Don't Fear the Reaper get their reputation for a reason, and whilst I won't deny people that, that same metric usually doesn't do a lot for me.

[Freypower]

Great topic. I won't do overplayed though, because I haven't listened to radio for a long time. And for the most part, I do like 'signature' songs.

Eagles: What JCL said about LWKUA although it doesn't usually get raved about by critics. About HC, I wouuldn't say it's overrated but I am tired of it, and that is a very different thing. The song I have always really considered overrated is Best Of My Love. It plods along with virtually no melody, though I like the lyrics & harmonies, and is too repetitive at the end. I would say the same for One Of These Nights. At the risk of upsetting some I would add I Can't Tell You Why & Wasted Time.

Beatles: There aren't any. Oh, OK... perhaps And I Love Her & Something. That hurt.

Rolling Stones: You Can't Always Get What You Want & really, the entire Exile On Main St album.

Dire Straits: I love Money For Nothing too much to see it as overrated. So as JCL says, Walk Of Life, So Far Away and (here we go JCL)... Telegraph Road.

Led Zeppelin: NOT the magnificent Stairway, my third favourite song. If anything I would say Achilles Last Stand.

Genesis: Far too much emphasis is placed on Phil Collins ballads like In Too Deep & Throwing It All Away (though I'm very fond of the latter). Here is where I CAN do an overplayed track; it's the onmipresent Invisible Touch.

Peter Gabriel: Shock The Monkey. There are many, many better songs in his catalogue than this.

Phil Collins: Against All Odds (Take A Look At Me Now). A lot of critics, having dealt with In The Air Tonight, reduce Phil to songs like this. Grossly unfair though this is, it's what happens.

Queen: Another One Bites The Dust, though I am very fond of it.

Neil Young: Tonight's The Night album & all the 'grunge' stuff.

[Jonny Come Lately]

I'll put my neck on the line here, I'm not normally a huge fan of signature songs. Stairway to Heaven I can listen to, and Page's guitar solo in the middle I think is one of the most underrated in all of rock music, but I don't really feel the same attachment to it as I do for the likes of Kashmir. Free Bird is a beautiful song and I love the lonesome slide guitar (which I'm presuming is Gary Rossington), but the solos never really did it for me as I've never felt like they really built to anything or progressed anywhere. Hotel California, whilst I like it as a song, probably doesn't make my top 30 favourite Eagles tracks and whilst I could listen to the outro all day, I much prefer their laid-back country work to any hard or typical rock songs they put out. All of the above songs and the other examples like BOC's Don't Fear the Reaper get their reputation for a reason, and whilst I won't deny people that, that same metric usually doesn't do a lot for me.

Interesting points. One thing I notice is that the first three signature songs you mention are often considered to be ‘guitar anthems’ – in other words, the classic rock answer to standards. I think one reason why they could be seen as overrated is that they are usually the favourites of wannabe guitarists, who tend to hype them up to an extreme level. By contrast, a song like Kashmir (which doesn’t feature an obvious guitar hero solo or riff) is less obviously appealing to this demographic so perhaps isn’t hyped up in the same way? Just a possibility.
I love most of the signature songs myself – at least, the ones of the bands I like – but I’ve noticed a bit of weird trend with them. Note the repetitive sentence structure!
- Stairway to Heaven is on balance my second favourite song on Led Zeppelin IV (my favourite Led Zeppelin album), after When The Levee Breaks.
- Free Bird is on balance my second favourite song on Pronounced Leh-Nerd Skin-Nerd (my favourite Lynyrd Skynyrd album), after Simple Man.
- Hotel California is on balance my second favourite song on its eponymous album (my favourite Eagles album), after The Last Resort.

I can add Deep Purple’s signature song to this list too – Smoke on the Water is on balance my second favourite song on Machine Head (my favourite Purple album), after Highway Star.

Some more songs that I think are overrated to a greater or lesser extent.
. California Girls – The Beach Boys (I cannot get past the lyrics, which I think are silly)
. Sad Eyed Lady of the Lowlands – Bob Dylan (great lyrics, but gets tiring as it is less interesting musically than say Desolation Row, which is similarly lengthy but holds my attention throughout).
. Mr Tambourine Man – The Byrds (I like their cover, but it does not touch the magic of Dylan’s original. My favourite elements of the original, the harmonica solo and the stunning imagery of the final verse, are absent).
. All She Wants To Do Is Dance – Don Henley (catchy and fun, but hasn’t aged as well as his more thoughtful 1980s hits and I get tired of it quite quickly. I honestly wasn’t that bothered that Don didn’t play it in Manchester).
. Not That Funny – Fleetwood Mac (critics and some Lindsey fans rave about this one. I find it too unpleasant to enjoy. I don’t like the vocals, the music or the lyrics, and I don’t like how it seems to self-plagiarise I Know I’m Not Wrong, a song that I actually really like).
. Supper’s Ready – Genesis (technically excellent, but I don’t really feel any connection to the music or lyrics the way I do with something like Echoes. There are individual parts that I think are great, but it doesn’t quite come together for me. Perhaps I need to listen to it more though).
. Wonderwall – Oasis (I’ve never liked it. I’m not sure why, I think it might be the chorus that annoys me. This is overplayed too, which doesn’t help).
. Learning to Fly – Pink Floyd (one of the better songs on that record, but doesn’t match up to the classics from the earlier albums)

Conversely, here are three songs could be seen as overrated, which in my opinion aren’t so I’ll offer a ‘defence’ for each:

. Telegraph Road – Dire Straits. Yes indeed FP! :p It would take too long to explain everything I love about it. Essentially, to me this song is the sound of the ‘real’ Dire Straits/Knopfler, the great songwriter-guitarist, same as with the title track from Brothers In Arms, which is what I’ve always loved. I don’t feel that way about Walk Of Life or So Far Away. Also, unlike many of the other comparable epics (some of which have already been mentioned), it is not overplayed.

. I Know What I Like (In Your Wardrobe) – Genesis. I think it’s mainly prog rock purists who would say this was overrated. I love it – it is catchy and concise yet wonderfully inventive and whimsical while fitting in perfectly with the central themes of the Selling England album. It doesn't need a lengthy keyboard solo to be great. I think it is underrated by prog fans, and deserves the praise it gets elsewhere.

. High Hopes – Pink Floyd. This is generally considered to be in the same category as Learning to Fly (the two biggest songs of the post-Waters era). The difference is that this song is magical and IMO stands up against their classic songs (Gilmour’s lap steel solo is one of his very finest). It was the perfect closer for The Division Bell.

[Freypower]

Regarding Telegraph Road - I like it. How could you not? But there is something about it that never pushed me over the final barrier, even though I've seen it live at least twice (I can't remember if he did it on the solo tour in 2005). None of his solo work is overrated. If anything it isn't well known enough.

Elton John: POSSIBLY the Captain Fantastic album, great though it is. When you break it down to song by song there are a couple of not so hot moments in there which tend to get overlooked. Also the Madman Across The Water album, Levon in particular. I am better at doing overrated albums than I am songs.

Don Henley: Building The Perfect Beast; the 'synthesiser' album, Boys Of Summer or not. I hesitate to say that song is overrated, but deep down I suppose I think it is.

Glenn Frey: Totally underrated, sadly, except for The Heat Is On & The One You Love.

[WS82Classics]

Building on some of the things already posited by others,

Elton John: I'd probably contend that the "Goodbye Yellow Brick Road" album is slightly over-rated. "Candle in the Wind" is certainly very over-played

Glenn Frey: I'll agree on "The One You Love, which has always been a bit too Michael Feinstein/Barry Manilow flavoured for my tastes.

Fleetwood Mac: I feel like this band is not properly rated at all. The highly commercial Buckingham/Nicks output from the mid-70's on into the 80's is about the most over-rated and over-played stuff out there. The Bob Welch era("Future Games," "Hypnotized," and "Emerald Eyes") of the band is grossly neglected.

Phil Collins: "In the Air Tonight," "I Don't Care Anymore," and "Don't Lose My Number" are all over-played on both Adult Contemporary, Classic Rock, and Variety/Oldies stations. "Against All Odds" is more than over-rated.

Beatles: If I were picking from their early career, I'd maybe go with "PS, I Love You" or "All My Loving" as slightly over-rated tracks. Having said that, "Seargeant Pepper" is without question the most over-rated album of all time, even if it does contain some of their more under-rated stand-alone songs("Getting Better," "Fixing a Hole"). There are real classic points on this record, but also some pretty lackluster material("She's Leaving Home," "Within You, Without You," "When I'm 64"). Most of their other albums and 45s are far better.

Rolling Stones: While "You Can't Always get What You Want" and 'Exile' are both a little bit over-rated{I'd also put in "Heartbreaker(Do, Do, Do, Do, Do)"}, none could even begin to approach the searing heights of over-ratedness that is "Satisfaction" and "Start Me Up."

Eagles: "Love Will Keep Us Alive" mainly gets airplay(and not a whole lot at that) on Adult Contemporary stations, so I wouldn't call that one 'over-played.' 'Dreadful' is a better term for it. "Get Over it," a fairly flaccid song, is very over-rated, but not to the degree of other Eagles songs.

REM: "Everybody Hurts" wasn't the big hit that "Losing My Religion" or even "Man on the Moon" were, so I don't think I would call that one over-rated or over-played. One that IS very much both of those is "What's the Frequency, Kenneth?" I never understood why that song was so popular.


Some additions on my part.

Uriah Heep: "Easy Livin'" is a fab song, but, from the band that did "July Morning" and "The Magician's Birthday," it does get a little outsized value from those places that even know the band Uriah Heep.

Moody Blues: "Tuesday Afternoon" and "Nights in White Satin" are both fairly rated, IMO. To me, it is "Isn't Life Strange?" that is given more than its due. Same goes for Justin Hayward's "Forever Autumn."

Jack Bruce: The former Cream bassist's "Songs for a Tailor" LP is a good introduction to what he offers up as far as solo material, but, when compared to such works as "Harmony Row" and "Out in the Storm," is not his best album.

Grand Funk Railroad: "Some Kind of Wonderful" is a nice song, but not among their better songs by any means.

Emerson, Lake, & Palmer: Of the band's deep tracks, "Trilogy' gets a bit over-blown by the rock literati. Of the hits, "Karn Evil 9," the song which reduces the band to the lyric 'Welcome back, my friends, to the show that never ends,' is more than a bit over-rated, even if it's not so much over-played(not many of their songs would get much airplay anymore).

Paul McCartney: "Maybe I'm Amazed" is a sweet tender song, but is grossly over-played. "Jet" and "Let 'Em In" are total jokes, but fun jokes none the less.

John Lennon: Why do people always use the song "Imagine" when "Mind Games" or even "Nobody Told Me" would be a better fit?

Ringo Starr: "Back Off, Boogaloo" and "Oh, My My." Do I need to say any more?

Harry Nilsson: "Coconut" is one of the dumbest songs, and yet it is also one of his biggest ever hits. I don't know why that is so.

Boz Scaggs: "Lowdown" is not his best song.

Gordon Lightfoot: "The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald" is properly rated, IMO. "If You Could Read My Mind," while a beautiful little ballad, is a bit over-played on the Oldies stations.

Jim Croce: "Bad, Bad LeRoy Brown" and "You Don't Mess Around With Jim" are not his two best songs.

Joe Walsh: "Life's Been Good" has been so thoroughly plowed into the ground by Classic Rock stations. "The Confessor" says in many, many more wails and wauls what "A Life of Illusion" (more pleasantly) already intimates.

Van Halen: Blurgh. The notion of them being one of America's best rock bands is just silly.

Guns 'N' Roses: Ditto.

Def Leppard: The much-beloved "Hysteria" album is an over-hyped, over-rated mess.

[Freypower]

Agree about Maybe I'm Amazed, not so much overplayed, as overrated.

Abba: The Winner Takes It All, while hearbreaking, etc etc etc.. there is a bit too MUCH of it (compare Phil Collins' You Know What I Mean). The two best Abba songs are Knowing Me, Knowing You & Money, Money, Money.

Oh, and Dancing Queen. WHY? It's catchy, that's all. A great song it is not.

Losing My Religion, REM's greatest song, is not overrated, but I think Everybody Hurts, which 'tries too hard', is.

[EagleLady]

I'm Afraid I must disagree about Goodbye Yellow Brick Road Being overrated and certainly Candle in the Wind being overplayed. Also Sgt. Pepper is far from overrated as well.

[chaim]

I consider myself a huge Waters fan, but IMO The Wall is overrated. It was a wonderful personal statement from Roger and I appreciate it if someone has really listened to it and genuinely gets something out of it. I know that - lyrically - it's the kind of narrative that must touch some people. But I think it's rather weak musically. So I'm pretty sure that there are tons of people who have learned to love it ("Everyone says it's amazing, so of course it's amazing"). And there must be tons of people who love Another Brick part II and Comfortably Numb and therefore think they love The Wall.

Personally I get much more out of The Final Cut. And that has been my personal experience, no one has decided it for me.

[Jonny Come Lately]

I consider myself a huge Waters fan, but IMO The Wall is overrated. It was a wonderful personal statement from Roger and I appreciate it if someone has really listened to it and genuinely gets something out of it. I know that - lyrically - it's the kind of narrative that must touch some people. But I think it's rather weak musically. So I'm pretty sure that there are tons of people who have learned to love it ("Everyone says it's amazing, so of course it's amazing"). And there must be tons of people who love Another Brick part II and Comfortably Numb and therefore think they love The Wall.

Personally I get much more out of The Final Cut. And that has been my personal experience, no one has decided it for me.

There’s a lot I can say about The Wall. For starters, it is probably my fourth favourite Pink Floyd album, behind Wish You Were Here, Dark Side and Animals (I think those albums have the perfect balance of lyrics and music). I personally can’t understand where people who say Wish You Were Here is overrated are coming from, whereas I can sympathise more with The Wall. It is a polarising album – some people love it, some people hate it. I don’t listen to the full album as often as I listen to my top three Floyd albums or Meddle. One reason is that is because I think it is best appreciated as a full record listened to from start to finish (whereas with say Physical Graffiti I often listen to the two discs separately) and it is less easy to find time to do this with a double album. It is also quite an intense experience – it is not a ‘sunny day’ album in the way that an album like the warm, mellow Atom Heart Mother is and I would loathe to ruin it for myself by overplaying it. I once read that the best music is not necessarily the music you listen to most often. I’m not sure I completely agree with that, but I think it applies in this case.

One weakness of the album is that I don’t think it ends as strongly as its three predecessors – where Dark Side has the cinematic Eclipse, Wish You Were Here has Rick Wright’s beautiful funeral march and Animals has the great outro of Sheep and the soothing second half of Pigs On The Wing. The collapse of the wall at the end of The Trial, although essential to the storyline, is not as satisfying a ‘moment’ as those three album endings. I absolutely love the lyrics to Outside The Wall, but I’m not crazy about the original arrangement – I much prefer the version played in the 1980-81 The Wall shows.

Having said all that though, The Wall is an album that means a lot to me. It was the first CD album I ever bought for myself in my first year at university. I remember going back to my room to listen to it that evening to listen to the full album and being transfixed by it. Over the last couple of years I have spent quite a lot of time alone on train journeys between home and university. This is roughly a three hour journey and in winter this is entirely in darkness. Much of this is through rural areas with little lighting and nothing to see, leaving me reliant on my music and/or reading material for amusement. I have played many albums on these trips and there are few better travel companions than The Wall, which keeps me greatly entertained for a huge chunk of the journey. Above all, I think it is a hugely emotional album, with so many hugely memorable songs and moments on the album. I love Waters’ berserk rage on One Of My Turns and the vivid lyrics of Nobody Home as much as I love the cathartic guitar solos of Hey You and Mother. There are songs that are despairing, like Don’t Leave Me Now, but I believe the overall message of the album is a positive one. I can understand your comment on the music, as there are a couple of musical themes that appear quite frequently (most notably the 'Another Brick' riff) and there are relatively few memorable keyboard parts. To counterbalance this though, I think David Gilmour was on top form as a guitarist - he doesn't have that many big solos, but there isn't any 'noodling' on The Wall, the guitar parts all seem very focused and powerful to me. I remember a quote from Roger around this time period where he said 'we make a great team', and I think he was right.

I must admit I was once one of the people who thought they loved The Wall because I loved those two songs – Comfortably Numb was the first song that got me into Pink Floyd in the first place four years or ago, and it has always been my favourite from the album. However, as I listened to more of the songs I found I love most of them too (and the few that I can take or leave as songs I think are essential to the story). I also love all of the references to earlier Floyd songs, many of which are lost on the ‘we don’t need no education’ fans. I think it is the more emotional songs that make it so great, the ones that really capture the bad moments, the desperation and the frustration, which is why I think Another Brick Part 2 is somewhat overrated (while, conversely, I think Another Brick Part 1 is a quietly brilliant piece which doesn’t get enough praise). My final word is that I think the part of me that loves The Wall is closely linked to the part of me that loves Desperado – they both follow the stories of young men who shut themselves off from the world to follow their dreams but are not truly happy or satisfied with their lives or with the people they actually are behind the bravado. That's my take, anyway.

I'm quite glad you mentioned this as it made me start to think about overrated/overplayed albums as well as individual songs. Having thought about it a bit, I started to wonder whether I would consider The Piper at the Gates of Dawn to be overrated. I guess on balance I would probably say that it is. I enjoy it when I listen to it, and it does contain my favourite pre-Meddle song (Astronomy Domine) but I don’t like it as much as I like A Saucerful of Secrets. I don’t tend to think of it is as ‘overrated’ because it has more of a cult appeal to Syd devotees and certain critics – it isn’t as widely praised as the big 1970s Floyd albums, and the songs definitely receive less airplay.

[chaim]

A wonderful post. I agree that The Wall is very emotional. One thing you usually can't accuse Roger Waters of is lack of emotion - especially from The Wall onwards. And, like I said, I think it's great when people genuinely love the album as a whole. Not just two or three songs and then say it's a great album.

It has been said, even by David, that Rick didn't play a lot on The Wall. However, a few moths ago I learned that Rick Wright actually played an awful lot of keyboards on the album. A recent book about The Wall (if I understood correctly) has a list, and there's also an interview with James Gutherie in the internet, where he says that Rick played so many great keyboard parts on the album. I remember someone, probably Gutherie, saying that even David and Roger probably don't know how much of Rick's playing there actually is on the album, because Rick's parts were recorded with an engineer and D & R weren't there.

[WS82Classics]

I would definitely consider "The Wall" over-rated. A lot of the songs are pretty meh, as Waters pretty much eschewed the Pink Floyd 'sound' when making this album. I would consider 'Dark Side' and "Meddle" to be only slightly over-rated, while "With You Were Here" is fairly rated IMO.

More thoughts...

Grateful Dead: Why and how ever did Average Bar Band become the counter-cultural institution that it is? As far as I'm concerned, they had 5 good songs("Beat it on Down the Line," "Uncle John's Band," "Casey Jones," "Scarlet Begonias," and "Touch of Grey") and 1 good album("American Beauty'). The rest is a real blandwagon. They're REALLY not all that!

KISS: To paraphrase Tom Petty, "Underneath the paint, they're just another band."

I also think "Taxi" by Harry Chapin gets more than its due. Tells a great story, sure, but it is not his best("Cats in the Cradle" is).

[chaim]

I would definitely consider "The Wall" over-rated. A lot of the songs are pretty meh, as Waters pretty much eschewed the Pink Floyd 'sound' when making this album. I would consider 'Dark Side' and "Meddle" to be only slightly over-rated, while "With You Were Here" is fairly rated IMO.

More thoughts...

Grateful Dead: Why and how ever did Average Bar Band become the counter-cultural institution that it is? As far as I'm concerned, they had 5 good songs("Beat it on Down the Line," "Uncle John's Band," "Casey Jones," "Scarlet Begonias," and "Touch of Grey") and 1 good album("American Beauty'). The rest is a real blandwagon. They're REALLY not all that!

KISS: To paraphrase Tom Petty, "Underneath the paint, they're just another band."

I also think "Taxi" by Harry Chapin gets more than its due. Tells a great story, sure, but it is not his best("Cats in the Cradle" is).

I don't think Gene would disagree with that, but Paul probably would.:rofl:

[WS82Classics]

Want to take the time to ever briefly note a couple of big time rock acts that have really crossed my radar of late who totally personify over-rated and over-played, more than just about anyone or anything else.

Bruce Springsteen: While I'd be curious enough to skim his new auto-biography, the vast majority of his songs are utterly over-blown in every regard. Apart from songs like '10th Avenue,' "Hungry Heart," and "Dancing in the Dark," the vast number of his songs stick to the most trite of formulas: Jersey shore, cars, girls, and FREEDOM. Aptly sets the stage for the even more simplistic formulas for modern Country music--Beer, blondes, football, and pickup trucks. Springsteen would be quite at home with the CMT crowd.

U2: "With or Without You" is a great song, but almost all of their other songs are truly bland and uninteresting, to say nothing of their airplay and recognition by critics. Seriously, though. Why are they a multi-billion selling act with massive radio airplay? In what ways have they been musical innovators and true crafters of music and song? I couldn't even count the ways on one hand.

[Jonny Come Lately]

Sorry I meant to reply to this earlier, just didn't get round to it. I can definitely see your points about both artists (checks to make sure no Rolling Stone journalists are watching...).

With Springsteen I feel like even though I have only heard a small amount of his music, I have heard all of the mythology. Neither of my parents have ever been particular fans so he's not someone I grew up listening to or hearing about. Seriously, he does have some great songs, but I think his importance is a bit overstated. I do actually have a recording of a Bruce concert on my computer - it's of the gig he did in January when he played Take It Easy just after Glenn passed. I extracted TIE so I could listen to that, although I've not felt much need to listen to his version (by contrast, I have to say I really liked KISS's TIE cover. The performance was less than perfect, for sure, but I think it was a heartfelt tribute).

As for U2, I can't really disagree with most of what you said. The only album that I sort of like is The Joshua Tree. I agree With Or Without You is a great track and I also like Where The Streets Have No Name (although this is more down to the guitar, which is very similar to David Gilmour's use of delay and effects pedals - think Run Like Hell - than the vocal/lyrical part of the song). There's a few others that are okay from that record too, mainly the more subtle ones. What doesn't help for me is that I find Bono's voice gets annoying quickly and so even their better songs don't really have any longevity for me. I can't stand anything from 2000 onwards - the self appointed 'biggest band in the world' stuff annoys me (it would be okay if the music actually justified that status, but this era has been their blandest). With their earlier 80s and 90s works although I'm not a fan I do at least get the sense that they were stretching themselves artistically and proving themselves and not worrying quite as much about being the 'biggest'. In some ways I think they have been both lucky and unlucky that no one has really come along and conquered the rock world this century, at least not in the mainstream. I feel some need to balance my earlier statements out and say that it isn't U2's fault, of course, and the fact that they can still be considered the world's biggest rock band is more of a reflection on the competition than on them. I have listened to a good amount of their stuff, so I kind of know by now that they're not the band for me - I don't have a problem with anyone who does like them.

Thanks Toni for your kind comments about my The Wall post! You make a very good point about Rick Wright's playing on the album - although he is less prominent than on pretty much all of their earlier records, his presence is still felt.