Doolin Dalton

[groupie2686]

I wasn't sure if this was the right place to post this....I was watching a youtube video of Doolin Dalton from the History of the Eagles tour and Timothy played the harmonica. Does anyone know why Glenn didn't play the harmonica on that anymore?

[scottside]

I wasn't sure if this was the right place to post this....I was watching a youtube video of Doolin Dalton from the History of the Eagles tour and Timothy played the harmonica. Does anyone know why Glenn didn't play the harmonica on that anymore?

It was probably easier for Glenn to just deal with playing the acoustic guitar without having to put down the harmonica after the intro. Since Tim also plays the instrument (and does it well, by the way), it made sense to let him do it. I really don't think there's anything more to it than that.

[thelastresort]

Also allowed Glenn to play rhythm guitar under it (as on the record), which of course they could never do before live.

[Jonny Come Lately]

Good point about the acoustic guitar. If you listen to the album version of Doolin-Dalton, the first instrument to come in is the acoustic guitar, followed by the harmonica. If you then compare it to the live performance on Don Kirshner's Rock Concert, then it starts with Glenn's harmonica and IIRC the acoustic doesn't enter until after he's finished the intro. As others have alluded to, this comes about as a result of Glenn playing both parts on the record, and I think it's quite understandable that they considered the harmonica more important. I don't think I've come across any performances of Doolin-Dalton from the HOTE tour, but on the album version the bass doesn't come in until after the first verse so I think it probably made more sense for Tim to play the harmonica part rather than Glenn, given that either of them could play the instrument. I assume (given his bass playing duties) he just played the intro like Glenn did in the 1970s? One thing I've noticed is that on the studio record the harmonica occasionally returns throughout the song, which they definitely couldn't have achieved live with Glenn playing acoustic.

Just thought - in the DKRC performance Felder had joined by that time, so I can't help but wonder how the intro might have sounded with Don F playing the harmonica intro on guitar. I suspect it wouldn't have quite sounded right though. I do remember reading on here about one tribute band - I think it was the one Toni (chaim) went to see in Finland a couple of years ago - who had someone play the harmonica part on an accordion.

Apart from anything else, I'm delighted to see that Doolin-Dalton now has its own thread, as it's one of my very favourite Eagles songs. It's certainly in with a very good shout at my top ten at the very least, and one of the ones I play most often (it's currently eighth in my iTunes Most Played Songs list!). Looking back, it was probably the first non-hit from the early albums that I fell in love with 3-4 years ago, and therefore pretty important in making me such a big fan.

[thelastresort]

From what I've seen / heard, the intro changed slightly when done live in the 1970s; they nearly always preceded it with some very, very light electric guitar work (not the acoustic tab) and it didn't segue into Henley's vocal, it went back to the light electric guitar again before Henley came in a few seconds later. When they revived it for HOTE with TBS, it was nearly identical to the album version: acoustic guitar, harmonica then straight into Henley's lead. I did love from the DKRC version that during the Reprise you had the four of them singing their hearts out at the end and Don Felder looking utterly bored whilst messing about on a Les Paul :lol:

It's one of my favourite Eagles songs too. The American West is my favourite period of history and absolutely fascinates me, which probably helps its case :lol:

[chaim]

It wasn't the first time Glenn gave his part to someone else when they played a song live.

(Incidentally, did he play the harmonica part on the record? Could have been one of their co-writer buddies too.)

[groupie2686]

It wasn't the first time Glenn gave his part to someone else when they played a song live.

(Incidentally, did he play the harmonica part on the record? Could have been one of their co-writer buddies too.)

What other parts did Glenn give to someone else? I know he gave the guitar solo in I Can't Tell You Why to Felder when they played it live, were there others?

I've seen the Don Kirschner video; I didn't notice any difference in the intro from what was on the record, I'll have to watch it again and pay more attention. According to wikipedia, Glenn played the harmonica on the record.

[UndertheWire]

Joe took over the guitar solo for Witchy Woman. In later years, Glenn stopped playing the piano on Desperado.

[scottside]

What other parts did Glenn give to someone else? I know he gave the guitar solo in I Can't Tell You Why to Felder when they played it live, were there others?

I've seen the Don Kirschner video; I didn't notice any difference in the intro from what was on the record, I'll have to watch it again and pay more attention. According to wikipedia, Glenn played the harmonica on the record.

After Joe Walsh joined the band, Glenn gave the slide guitar solo and parts on "Midnight Flyer" to him to do live.

[thelastresort]

After Joe Walsh joined the band, Glenn gave the slide guitar solo and parts on "Midnight Flyer" to him to do live.

I haven't watched either in ages, but isn't it the case that Glenn does lead and Joe rhythm on the Seattle bootleg, but for the Houston one it is then reversed? Different tours obviously but I'm sure I've seen Joe do the rhythm on Midnight Flyer somewhere. I remember from the DKRC version Felder did rhythm and Bernie did banjo: there can't be many Eagles songs where every guitarist ended up playing someone else's part!

In addition to Desperado he abandoned every Eagles-penned piano part bar Wasted Time and ICTYW after their reformation. I realise it probably pained him to play it on account of his arthritis but I do wish he and Don H. had stuck to the way they played in the Seventies more upon reformation. Sometimes you ended up with so many rhythm guitarists on one song you almost felt as though they were wasted.

[Jonny Come Lately]

Midnight Flyer is an interesting one because if you compare the 1976/77 live performances to the 1974 DKRC version, the only line up change is having Joe in for Bernie, yet both of the other guitarists play a different instrument to the one they did just a couple of years earlier. On DKRC, Bernie is playing the banjo, with Glenn on slide guitar and Don F playing acoustic; in the 76-77 tour versions, Don F has taken over the banjo after Bernie's departure and Joe has replaced Glenn on slide, with Glenn moving to the acoustic part.
EDIT: Just noticed tlr has addressed this very same point!

I think I also read that on the few occasions that Try And Love Again was played on the Hotel California tour in 1977, Don F played the song's electric guitar solo (which Glenn played on record) with Glenn on acoustic.

I've just thought of another one (although I'm not absolutely sure of it), in this case actually one which I believe Glenn played live originally but relinquished when the studio version was recorded - Good Day In Hell. I can't remember where (I think it was on here) but there's a concert recording from late 1973 where I seem to recall reading that he probably played the slide guitar on the early version of GDIH, which if he did play it then means he would have handed over slide duties to Don F when they recorded it for On The Border. In the pre-Don F era I think Glenn always played slide if it was required, it was more his musical territory than Bernie's.

[NightMistBlue]

I think I also read that on the few occasions that Try And Love Again was played on the Hotel California tour in 1977, Don F played the song's electric guitar solo (which Glenn played on record) with Glenn on acoustic.

That's interesting. And Joe would be playing rhythm on electric guitar?

Randy said that Joe helped him develop that song - I assumed he meant with the arrangement. Joe probably (tho it's always dangerous to assume!) came up with the lovely little melody filigree played by the electric guitar.

[Jonny Come Lately]

I did a search and found the thread where I read about the guitars on the live version of TALA:

https://eaglesonlinecentral.com/forum/showthread.php?p=242191#post242191

Didn't know Randy had said that about Joe contributing to the track. Apart from anything else, I think this suggests, if not outright proves, that Joe was playing one of Gretsch's electric guitar models on the record! :wink:

Excuse me for asking, but which bit do you mean by the filigree? Just curious.

[NightMistBlue]

Well, if you were here I'd sing it for you: the opening hook "nyeer nyeer, nyee nyeh-nyeh-nyeh nyeeARR" - that bit! I'd bet money that Joe came up with that. Not a lot of money, mind.

filigree: ornamental work of fine (typically gold or silver) wire formed into delicate tracery.

That's what the guitar part sounds like to me.

Thanks for the link, Johny!

[scottside]

I haven't watched either in ages, but isn't it the case that Glenn does lead and Joe rhythm on the Seattle bootleg, but for the Houston one it is then reversed? Different tours obviously but I'm sure I've seen Joe do the rhythm on Midnight Flyer somewhere. I remember from the DKRC version Felder did rhythm and Bernie did banjo: there can't be many Eagles songs where every guitarist ended up playing someone else's part!

In addition to Desperado he abandoned every Eagles-penned piano part bar Wasted Time and ICTYW after their reformation. I realise it probably pained him to play it on account of his arthritis but I do wish he and Don H. had stuck to the way they played in the Seventies more upon reformation. Sometimes you ended up with so many rhythm guitarists on one song you almost felt as though they were wasted.

I can't be sure about the videos because I've only heard audio for the shows you mentioned. However, I saw the Eagles right after Walsh joined and it was probably the last time "Midnight Flyer" was in the set list and it was Walsh on slide and Frey on acoustic. No doubt Walsh is the better slide player, but it wasn't the kind of song that demanded a virtuoso to play it. I always felt that Frey handled it fine.

[Delilah]

Joe took over the guitar solo for Witchy Woman. In later years, Glenn stopped playing the piano on Desperado.

I didn't know this--when did he give up the guitar solo? I'm assuming it was during the post-HFO era (when it was no longer physically comfortable for Glenn to do a lot of guitar solos)?

[Delilah]

Well, if you were here I'd sing it for you: the opening hook "nyeer nyeer, nyee nyeh-nyeh-nyeh nyeeARR" - that bit! I'd bet money that Joe came up with that. Not a lot of money, mind.

filigree: ornamental work of fine (typically gold or silver) wire formed into delicate tracery.

That's what the guitar part sounds like to me.

Thanks for the link, Johny!

Nice sound effects, NMB! I believe Randy's quote was "Joe helped me with that, a little." That beginning guitar melody that repeats thereafter seems more than just a "little"; maybe they worked on it together? :hmm:But who knows. You could be exactly right.

[Funk 50]

I was at the first post resumption concert to feature Witchy Woman in Manchester UK 2001 and it was definitely Glenn playing the guitar solo.

The inner cover of the 1981, Eagles Live album has a photo of Tim playing harmonica. I guessed that they must have been performing Doolin Dalton when it was taken. I loved Glenn's slide work on Midnight Flyer too. I was a bit disappointed when Joe took over. I believe Joe's hands are too big to play, thin necked, instruments like mandolin and banjo, so I can see why Don Felder switched to playing Bernie's parts on some tracks.

When I read that Joe helped Randy with Try And Love Again, I believed that Joe would have had a lot to do with the multi guitar arrangement. It's difficult having several guitars complimenting each other on an uptempo rock song, never mind a, vocal led ballad.

:-)

[chaim]

Yes, I'm sure Glenn played the Witchy Woman solo in Manchester UK 2001, like Funk 50 said. But on the HOTE tour they played a totally different version of the song. If I remember correctly, Joe played a new solo, he didn't play Glenn's solo.

[Delilah]

It sounds like here in this '74 Boston performance of "Tryin" that Glenn gave his guitar solo to Don F, esp. in the last 2 minutes which sounds quite Felderish (mislabeled "Keep on Tryin").

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vAhG0sX8DDM

**Perhaps the thread title should be changed since the topic is more about the instrumental parts Glenn gave up rather than the actual song "Doolin-Dalton":shrug:**