Eagles and Band Leadership

[Delilah]

Number one, Frey was always the leader of the band from the inception. That doesn't mean that everyone else was unimportant or had no voice, but it was his idea to build a band based on Geffin's advice to do so. Henley did not have the temperament or the inclination to be the leader by his own admission.




I have not seen evidence of that. Please provide a source. I have heard people say that Henley was a perfectionist, that Frey was tired of all the strife in the band, that both were tired and on cocaine, which made the problems 100 times worse. I have never read or heard that they fought over the leadership of the band.


This was originally posted in the Eagles 3.0 topic. I don't agree that it is so clear-cut that Glenn was the leader from the get-go. So I thought a discussion in a new thread might be warranted. Here are some reasons why I don't agree.

1. Glenn had the idea for a band and started it with Don Henley. However Randy has been quoted as saying that when they were backing up Linda Ronstadt together, he thought they should form a band together. Glenn probably had the idea first but I thought I would throw that in there since it's implied that having the idea for a band makes one the leader (Brian Jones anyone?).

2. During the early days of the Eagles, Don told Glenn, "You and I are going to have run this band."

3. In Heaven and Hell, Don F quotes Glenn as saying, "There are no sidemen in this band. We've all been there and we know what it's like." This statement was made when they were discussing a 5-way split of Eagles Ltd. and the profits right after Don F joined.

4. In the HOTE documentary, Joe described the guys as alpha males and that during all the fighting you'd hear, "I'm in charge, no you're not!" etc.

5. Also in the HOTE documentary, Don H says you cannot have 5 leaders in a band, which indicates that there was indeed a something of a power struggle among the members. Such a power struggle would not happen if there was a definite, accepted leader from the start.

I believe Bill Szymczyk also says something about leadership conflicts during The Long Run era but I can't remember off-hand what he said exactly.

During the HFO era and after, it's pretty clear Glenn was the leader but I still believe Don H wielded a lot of influence.

[Freypower]

I don't think I'm wrong if I state that there was a power struggle between Frey & Henley, not the others. The others never got anywhere near 'leadership'. I don't think they ever wanted to, although Felder obviously felt that his views went unheard. I think you could say that Henley became more of a leader in terms of writing more lyrics but Glenn as far as I know still dealt with most of the business decisions & did the musical arrangements. There is no argument that Henley remained second in command throughout. The attempt at a reunion in 1992 failed because Glenn refused to be involved - essentially he vetoed it.

I have never heard that Randy suggested forming the band. It has always been my understanding that he & Bernie were asked to join.

Just because someone is a leader doesn't stop power struggles. No matter how hard you try, you can't stop people working against you. You only have to look at political parties to know that. But you have to remember Glenn's own statement towards the end of HOTE. It was the only time he ever came out & stated it explicitly but he said that he was proud to have been the leader of the Eagles & to have been Henley's partner.

[Delilah]

I don't think I'm wrong if I state that there was a power struggle between Frey & Henley, not the others.

I have never heard that Randy suggested forming the band. It has always been my understanding that he & Bernie were asked to join.


I agree that the leadership issues were primarily between Henley and Frey. My point is that I don't believe it was clearly established that Glenn was the leader from the very beginning. Brian Jones was probably a poor example since he was the leader of the RS at the beginning, although it didn't last.


Around 1970, Meisner met eventual Eagle co-leaders Don Henley and Glenn Frey.

"Glenn was playing with Linda Ronstadt at the time, and I think Henley too," he says. "They used to watch me at the Troubadour, and they asked me if I would play a gig with them. So we played in San Jose. I remember that night because I told Glenn, 'Man, we should start a group.' I think they already had that in mind. Then Bernie Leadon left the Flying Burrito Brothers [and joined the group]. That's how the Eagles started."

"An Eagle Has Landed" L.A. Times, Apr. 4, 1996 (http://articles.latimes.com/1996-04-04/entertainment/ca-54923_1_eagle-songs)

(I just noticed the "co-leaders" reference in the quote)

[Freypower]

It should also be remembered that when they made their pitch to David Geffen, it was Bernie who made it. 'Do you want us or not'? Glenn deferred to Bernie in that instance. It took him time to find his feet, although he was always the onstage spokesman.

Frey & Henley were referred to as co-leaders on numerous occasions in the media. There is a case for it, but I believe that Glenn always had the final say in the end.

[New Kid In Town]

Well, based the books I have read it has always been stated that Glenn was the leader/founder of the band. As I stated earlier in another thread, Marc Eliot's book "To The Limit" goes into detail regarding this. The media always referred to Glenn and Don as "co-leaders", which probably was true until their power struggle began.

According to Eliot's book, sometime soon after the band started, Glenn was voted "President". Don was voted something along the lines of "Secretary". Glenn apparently did make the statement about no leaders but obviously, this was not true. In the beginning Glenn emerged as the clear leader. He apparently set band schedules in term of rehearsing, drew up set lists and made the announcements on stage. The struggle between Don and Glenn apparently began around 1977 and continued until they broke up in 1980. This was one of the many contributing factors that led to the break up of the group. Glenn and Don had been living together up until somewhere around 1977. They had a huge fight which Eliot indicated was over control of the band, and Don moved in with Irving(who was by then married).
When they toyed with the idea of regrouping in 1990, I think this was one of the reasons Glenn said no to the resumption (Glenn stated the others being his need for his first intestional surgery and his recent marriage to Cindy). When they regrouped in 1994 for HFO, Don made some comments in the book about old problems resurfacing alluding to his battles with Glenn and Glenn's with Don F. Somewhere along the line after this Glenn became the acknowledged leader with Don as his co-leader. All band decisions were made by Glenn, Don and Irving. It apparently remained this way until Glenn's death.

[Delilah]

The positions of "President", "Secretary" etc. refer to the corporation that was set up after Felder joined the band. I don't consider that "soon after the band started."

I've watched videos as well as listened to bootleg concerts from the early days and Glenn is not the only one making announcements. That didn't come till later ("We're the Eagles from Los Angeles").

I've read that he drew up setlists and the like later during the band's run. I've seen no evidence he was the sole decision maker in this regard at the beginning. Randy and I believe Don H helped secure locations for rehearsals in the early days.

I don't agree that "Glenn apparently did make the statement about no leaders but obviously, this was not true." I don't think it's so obvious at that time. You make it sound like you were in the band.

[New Kid In Town]

Delilah - I was just indicating what I had read in numerous books regarding the Eagles.

[UndertheWire]

The leadership position seems to have changed over time. In the beginning, the premise was that they were all equal with an equal vote. They had all been sidemen and their ideal was to run the group as a democracy. However, when you have two people who tend to agree, their votes are going to carry more weight than the other two, so in practice it was probably Glenn backed by Don who made most of the decisions.

Another factor in this is that Glenn and Don were putting more time into the group than Bernie and Randy. Glenn and Don lived the life 24 hours a day whereas Randy would go home to his family and Bernie preferred a more balanced life with time off with friends at the beach and such.

Bernie did a radio interview a few years ago and he was asked (by the interviewer who also a musician) about who did the work in the early days such as publicity that can add up to 12 hours to the day and Bernie's response was that would be Glenn. A contract for an early gig came up on ebay a while back, and it had Glenn's signature in the place for the group leader. This supports the idea that Glenn was the one who primarily dealt with the business side of the band from the start.

In the early days, it appears that Don deferred to Glenn on many matters. Glenn had spent a lot of time at the Troubadour, watching and networking and had a plan for success whereas Don didn't even know who Geffen was or why they needed him.

If you can find the "No Christmas Cards" article from Uncut, it describes early band dynamics with quotes from Bernie and also Glyn Johns.

Glenn was their frontman on stage from the start. For some reason he was also the lead singer, although all of the others got to sing lead at some point. If you look at setlists from around 1973/4 you can see that Glenn sang lead on about half the songs.

I need to get on with other things but I'm sure I'll return to this topic.

[Annoying Twit]

To quote Glenn directly:



The band was like a fake democracy. Henley and I were making the decisions while at the same time trying to pacify, include, and cajole the others.


We can argue over whether or not Glenn or Don was slightly more the leader than the other. But, I believe that the band was co-lead by both Glenn and Don.

There are other noteworthy opinions, such as Bob Seger. But, I see no reason not to take Glenn's words at face value.

If you insit on saying that Eagles had one leader, then it has to be Glenn right from the beginning to Glenn's passing. But, Don was not just a yes-man, he was an important leading force in the band too.

[UndertheWire]

There appears to have been a shift in power from Glenn backed by Don to a co-leadership around 1975 and this may have led to increasing friction. However, it's worth noting that when faced with opposition, they always seemed to stand together.

1975 was when they made it big. Two #1 hits (both sung by Henley). Headline tours, lots of money, the cover of the Rolling Stone. The addition of Don Felder will have changed the balance of power. New manager. New producer. Increased drug usage.

Something happened between Don and Glenn during the recording of the HC album and it carried on into the tour. They were no longer friends sharing a room but members of a band who communicated with each other through their roadies.

[New Kid In Town]

Thank You UTW, I think you summarized it perfectly.

[Delilah]

The leadership position seems to have changed over time. In the beginning, the premise was that they were all equal with an equal vote. They had all been sidemen and their ideal was to run the group as a democracy. However, when you have two people who tend to agree, their votes are going to carry more weight than the other two, so in practice it was probably Glenn backed by Don who made most of the decisions.

If you can find the "No Christmas Cards" article from Uncut, it describes early band dynamics with quotes from Bernie and also Glyn Johns.

Glenn was their frontman on stage from the start. For some reason he was also the lead singer, although all of the others got to sing lead at some point. If you look at setlists from around 1973/4 you can see that Glenn sang lead on about half the songs.

I need to get on with other things but I'm sure I'll return to this topic.

It's been awhile since I've read that "Uncut" article; I'll have to review it. Thanks for the reminder.

Interesting about the Glenn singing lead comment. He wrote songs and brought in Jack Tempchin and Jackson Browne's material so I assume that why he sang those leads. But did he also sing many leads with Longbranch Pennywhistle? I don't think Don and Bernie sang many leads with Shiloh and FBB. Randy didn't sing any leads with The Stone Canyon Band and only one with Poco. That may be a reason the band gravitated, at first, toward Glenn being the lead singer--more recent frontman experience.

[Delilah]

Delilah - I was just indicating what I had read in numerous books regarding the Eagles.

Ok, I guess I was reading your comment the wrong way.

[Annoying Twit]

Interesting about the Glenn singing lead comment. He wrote songs and brought in Jack Tempchin and Jackson Browne's material so I assume that why he sang those leads. But did he also sing many leads with Longbranch Pennywhistle? I don't think Don and Bernie sang many leads with Shiloh and FBB. Randy didn't sing any leads with The Stone Canyon Band and only one with Poco. That may be a reason the band gravitated, at first, toward Glenn being the lead singer--more recent frontman experience.

Didn 't Don sing lead on his Shiloh songs? If so, then he sang more leads on the Shiloh album than he did on the first Eagles album.

[Freypower]

It's been awhile since I've read that "Uncut" article; I'll have to review it. Thanks for the reminder.

Interesting about the Glenn singing lead comment. He wrote songs and brought in Jack Tempchin and Jackson Browne's material so I assume that why he sang those leads. But did he also sing many leads with Longbranch Pennywhistle? I don't think Don and Bernie sang many leads with Shiloh and FBB. Randy didn't sing any leads with The Stone Canyon Band and only one with Poco. That may be a reason the band gravitated, at first, toward Glenn being the lead singer--more recent frontman experience.


The most frustrating thing about the Longbranch album is that Glenn sings lead on TWO songs. So no, he didn't have that much experience in that context. He had been the lead singer of his Detroit band the Subterraneans.

If you listen to his performance of Get Up Kate backing Linda Ronstadt it's clear he was born to be a lead singer & frontman.

Regarding UTW's comment about what happened between Don & Glenn after HC, the biased Glenn fan in me thinks Glenn realised what he had done by allowing Don to dominate that album so much. He had ceded his position ('I sang less. We had Don Henley'). Don became the star. Perhaps the only reason Glenn was able to retain the leadership was because he stood down the front & his personality was the strongest. I try to think of his generosity & willingness to promote his bandmates which is another sign of leadership; but in this case he went too far in my view.

[Funk 50]

I believe Glenn was the front man through force of personality. Henley was always a great singer but was a far more reticent personality plus he was the drummer, he was invisible to most of the audience.

The friction with Bernie, Randy and Don (F) doesn't seem to be any more excessive in the Eagles than in their stints with other bands. Bernie joined and left a few bands before he joined the Eagles. Randy didn't even last until the first album with Poco. Felder mentions being in bands before the Eagles but he never divulges how they fell apart.

It was Glyn Johns who encouraged them to share the vocals around. I've heard it was Most Of Us Are Sad (G Frey song with Randy on lead vocal) that won him over. So they were sharing the vocals before Johns became their producer.

I've recently read that Don's mother spoilt him rotten. Don was used to getting his own way as he was growing up so I can see a dynamic where Don is quite happy for Glenn to be leader as long as he gets his own way.

On the Eagles Live album, Glenn introduces Don as "our drummer" before Don sings Wasted Time (1976). Probably since Best Of My Love became a belated hit, Henley's influence as a hit singer overtook his role as the drummer. Bill Szymczyk obviously didn't share Glyn John's philosophy sharing the lead vocals.

It was great to see Glenn making a major vocal contribution to Long Road Out Of Eden but I remember that there was friction during it's creation.

They were going to film the making of that album but I'm sure that was abandoned at some time. Bill Szymczyk was the original producer but was laid off after a couple of years. Don and Glenn switched to working in separate studios at some point. Glenn declared that he was finished with the album as Don was saying something like it was two thirds done. Glenn wanted a double CD, Don wanted a single, Henley said it needed another six months, after it was released.:D When they got the deadline from Walmart, they all went back into the studio together to finish it. Tim says they were working on LROOE up to the last minute of the last day before they handed over the finished product.

When Henley says that Glenn was the leader, I guess he's discounting the time they spend in the studio putting the music together or Glenn knew it would be a waste of time and effort trying to tell Don what to do and just left him to it. :shrug:

[UndertheWire]

I find it hard to come to this without bringing my own bias. I'm also wary of reviving the whole Felder debate.

One of the problems when looking at band leadership is the lack of good source material.

We have Marc Eliot's book which is unbalanced because of a lack of co-operation from Glenn. Henley gave a lot of input (prior to when it was first published) even if he regretted that later. Someone close to the band commented that Eliot didn't get it right but it wasn't his fault (and I don't know where I got that from).

The second source is Don Felder's book which has problems in that the co-writer relied on Eliot's book to some extent and, of course, Don Felder wasn't able to view Glenn objectively at the time he was writing the book.

Apart from that, we can look at interviews over the years and the comments from many sources after Glenn died (keeping in mind that most people will focus on positives in such circumstances).

The seond problem is understanding what we mean by "band leadership". It's not always the one out front talking to the audience. At this point, I'm thinking of "Almost Famous" where we learned that it had been agreed that Jeff would be the frontman but Russell was the band leader. I'm also thinking of "The Smiths" where it was the bass player who took care of band business but the singer who got the glory. It's not always clear to fans who does what and who makes the decisions.

In background reading, I see lots of references to Glenn working with other band members to help them deliver (whether they wanted his help or not!) but not so much for Don. I know Don was part of the decision-making process, had a good ear for when things weren't played right and reviewed lyrics. I'm interested in anything that someone with a different bias can add to this. I don't feel I have a good grasp of Don's personality and abilities.

[WalshFan88]

I definitely feel it was Glenn's band. Though I think DH had more say-so than the rest of them, but I feel that Glenn had the final say even over Don. I think his personality led him to be the frontman, albeit being a co-lead vocalist with Henley. Back in the days when Henley did all the drumming, he certainly was the frontman and had the stage presence. He, right or wrong, did things his way. Certainly didn't pull any punches in the later years of the band making decisions.

[Delilah]

I believe Glenn was the front man through force of personality. Henley was always a great singer but was a far more reticent personality plus he was the drummer, he was invisible to most of the audience.

When Henley says that Glenn was the leader, I guess he's discounting the time they spend in the studio putting the music together or Glenn knew it would be a waste of time and effort trying to tell Don what to do and just left him to it. :shrug:

And the end result is that "Waiting in the Weeds" is by far the best thing on that album, possibly the best song since "Hotel California" although the former sounds more like a Henley single while the latter is more Eagles-like. Leaving Don to his own devices was probably a good thing. And Don may not have cared who was called the leader as long as he called some or even most of the shots behind the scenes. Did Don have more input on Hotel California than The Long Run?

[Freypower]

And the end result is that "Waiting in the Weeds" is by far the best thing on that album, possibly the best song since "Hotel California" although the former sounds more like a Henley single while the latter is more Eagles-like. Leaving Don to his own devices was probably a good thing. And Don may not have cared who was called the leader as long as he called some or even most of the shots behind the scenes. Did Don have more input on Hotel California than The Long Run?

Given his dominance of HC I would say so. By TLR it appears both he & Glenn had just about given up. He is quoted in Eliot's book in saying that he had to do more to keep things going because Glenn had 'stepped back' or words to that effect. I don't however translate that as calling some or most of the shots. Glenn had the final say, always, including the decision to disband.

WITW is the best song on LROOE in your opinion. For me it's the title track, which has just as much of Glenn in it as Don, although probably not in the lyrics. I'm not going to get into any arguments about how they divided up & recorded LROOE. The fact is that it was Glenn who insisted that it be a double album. He got his way. I should however repeat what I observed recently; he did NOT get his way about recording songs by the band's influences.

[chaim]

The only thing that could make me think of WITW as a Henley single is the absence of "Frey" in the credits. I have no idea in what way it sounds like a Henley solo track, but I admit I haven't heard every solo album he has done.

[Funk 50]

I think the arrival of Joe Walsh had a huge effect on Hotel California. Joe already had a very close relationship with producer Bill Szymczyk and I'm sure both Glenn and Don felt obliged to allow Joe room to shine.

On Long Road Out Of Eden there's a disappointing amount of Joe. I haven't studied it but there could be more Smith than Walsh on it. There are many fine songs on it and I like it very much but it does lack something that was definitely there in the 70s, even before Felder joined. Lack of co-operation could certainly come into it but I presume it's lost youthful exuberance, aspiration and boundless confidence in their own ability, rather than inner band politics. Becoming seasoned veterans never seems to be a good move for a band.

I'm pretty sure the remaining Eagles could make a (single) album as good as Long Road Out Of Eden, if they have the motivation. :-)


Back on topic, here's a little nugget I've stumbled upon;


Frey, now with the Eagles, made his triumphant return to David Geffen’s office without even a demo tape. As the group’s father figure/leader in its first year, Bernie did all the talking. “Geffen had no idea what we sounded like,” Henley recounts. “And here comes Bernie walking in saying, ‘Okay, here we are. Do you want us or not.’ It was a great moment. Geffen kinda said, ‘Well…yeah.’

http://www.theuncool.com/journalism/rs196-the-eagles/

[Delilah]

The only thing that could make me think of WITW as a Henley single is the absence of "Frey" in the credits. I have no idea in what way it sounds like a Henley solo track, but I admit I haven't heard every solo album he has done.

I don't hear Glenn or Joe when I listen to WITW. I'm not saying they are not there; I just don't hear them. I definitely hear Timothy. The song would fit perfectly on a Don Henley solo album; it has a feel like "The End of the Innocence." There's no cynicism about females in the lyrics (except maybe "what a mess you're making"), no Eagles harmony, no Eagles-like guitar sound, at least to me. It's hard for me to describe the Eagles vibe that makes an Eagles song. I have the same impression about "You Are Not Alone" which is my favorite Glenn vocal lead on the album; to me that is all Glenn. Contrast the title track which does sound more like Eagles.

Had there been a studio album between The Long Run and LROOE to bridge the gap in sound, maybe my opinion would be different.



Back on topic, here's a little nugget I've stumbled upon;


http://www.theuncool.com/journalism/rs196-the-eagles/

Given this was written by Cameron Crowe, I find his quote very interesting (and credible).

[New Kid In Town]

Delilah - Thank You for posting that. That article is in the RS special issue I have. I think one of the amazing things regarding Glenn being the group leader/co-leader was how young he was. In August 1971, when the Eagles formed, Glenn was only 22(he would be 23 in Nov.). Amazing how driven he was for someone so young. I remember reading in a article here in I think "Glenn and the Press" or "Eagles and the Press", and Glenn stated what a toll it took on him. He stated he lived the Eagles 24/7 for nine years, and was sick, exhausted and emotionally drained when he left the band. He also stated he would never do that again.
In the book "The Eagles - Flying High" by Laura Jackson there is a quote from Glenn regarding the toll it took on him.
Page187 - "The whole time the Eagles were together I can count the number of two week vacations I had on one hand, and all of those weren't holidaying, so much as hospitalizing myself on a beach".
She also states: "In Glenn's case it was clear that walking away was an act of self preservation. After the brawl in 1980(with Don F.) he headed to his home in Kauai desperately trying to heal in idyllic surroundings".

I would guess it would probably be safe to say that by the time the Eagles split in 1980, it had taken it's toll on everyone except maybe Timothy.

[groupie2686]

On Long Road Out Of Eden there's a disappointing amount of Joe. I haven't studied it but there could be more Smith than Walsh on it. There are many fine songs on it and I like it very much but it does lack something that was definitely there in the 70s, even before Felder joined. Lack of co-operation could certainly come into it but I presume it's lost youthful exuberance, aspiration and boundless confidence in their own ability, rather than inner band politics. Becoming seasoned veterans never seems to be a good move for a band.



Of course they LROOE lost it's "youthful exuberance" when compared to their earlier albums...they were no longer youthful themselves.

Back to the band leadership question, it seems clear to me that Glenn was the leader of the band. He may have consulted Henley about a lot of things and Henley had more and more input as the 70s went on, but it seems like Glenn had the final say. Henley has made several comments suggesting that he did not agree with decisions that were made in later years- he thought LROOE should have been a single album, he didn't want to do the documentary, etc. Plus, it was Glenn who did all the hiring and firing of band members. There are numerous interviews, including the documentary, where Glenn referred to himself as the leader of the band.

In terms of who had more input on the albums, how would we know that? I find it hard to believe that a track would have made it on LROOE (or any other album) without Glenn having a hand it in it somehow, even if he didn't have songwriting credit - even if it was just arranging the harmonies or something.

[Freypower]

I don't hear Glenn or Joe when I listen to WITW. I'm not saying they are not there; I just don't hear them. I definitely hear Timothy. The song would fit perfectly on a Don Henley solo album; it has a feel like "The End of the Innocence." There's no cynicism about females in the lyrics (except maybe "what a mess you're making"), no Eagles harmony, no Eagles-like guitar sound, at least to me. It's hard for me to describe the Eagles vibe that makes an Eagles song. I have the same impression about "You Are Not Alone" which is my favorite Glenn vocal lead on the album; to me that is all Glenn. Contrast the title track which does sound more like Eagles.

Had there been a studio album between The Long Run and LROOE to bridge the gap in sound, maybe my opinion would be different.



Given this was written by Cameron Crowe, I find his quote very interesting (and credible).


This song is FULL of Eagles harmony. I don't know about Joe, but Glenn can clearly be heard singing the low part. He is particularly audible in the final chorus and in the line 'the seasons are slowly changing you'.

I agree that Joe is underused on LROOE. If the Renmants were to make an album does it need to be pointed out, that without Glenn Frey, it would be even less of an 'Eagles' album. Well, yes, I guess it does.

I already made the comment about Bernie's pitch to Geffen. That was on one occasion. I notice F50 didn't quote this part:

I get so caught up in all this-the pressures of being Glenn Frey of the Eagles, the guy who talks a lot-that if Randy or Bernie needed some confidence building, I might be too self-involved to realize it. I worry about that. But even though there’s a keg of dynamite that’s always sitting there, this band is fairly together.”

[Dawn]

Why Glenn Frey was the True Leader of the Eagles

http://www.vulture.com/2016/01/glenn-frey-was-the-leader-of-the-eagles.html

[GlennLover]

This song is FULL of Eagles harmony. I don't know about Joe, but Glenn can clearly be heard singing the low part. He is particularly audible in the final chorus and in the line 'the seasons are slowly changing you'.


I agree, FP. of any song on the album I think that is one that really has their sound, harmony-wise. (I know that's not a word.) The harmony on this song is beautiful.

[UndertheWire]

I've found the link to the Uncut article. WHat I like about it is that it has Bernie, Glyn Johns, Ron Stone (early manager) and Jackson Browne commenting on the changing leadership dynamic through the first three albums. (And yes, there's an unflattering comment from Glyn Johns about Glenn which shouldn't be ignored).

http://www.uncut.co.uk/features/eagles-on-desperado-we-were-quite-taken-with-the-idea-of-being-outlaws-8613


“When we got together we defined our business plan: we wanted to be successful, world famous, acclaimed and rich,” says Leadon. “One of the first things Frey said was, ‘OK, let’s keep this simple. No Christmas cards.’ Did we go on holiday and call each other? No.”

“There was all this success and then – whammo – we were due back in the studio,” says Leadon. “Frey said at the time, ‘We’ve had the hits, now what we want is critical acceptance as serious artists. We’ll do that with this album.’”
Nevertheless, changes were taking place in the band dynamic. Having worked with them mere months before on their debut, and as a producer who was firmly committed to the Eagles being an equilibrium where “no-one feels left out and is fairly represented”, Johns noticed a clear shift in the power base. “Henley and Frey assumed control during Desperado, is the best way of putting it,” he says. “That feeling was always there, but stronger on the second LP.”

On Desperado, the pair had a hand in writing eight of the 10 originals, and shared writing credits on the two most high- profile tracks – “Tequila Sunrise” and “Desperado”. It was the start of the Eagles’ musical output beginning to reflect both the band hierarchy and also the manner in which it had been formed in the first place. “There was a degree of prefabrication to the Eagles,” says Stone. “We put them all together, with Glenn and Don as the centrepieces, but they wanted it to be a real, organic band. That’s the emotional component of the first two records: to be a proper band, almost playing at being a democracy. What they realised as time went on is that rock’n’roll is a benevolent dictatorship.”

Leadon, perhaps surprisingly, agrees: “They were more suited to lead. It was actually Glyn’s idea to make it more of a four-way thing. The natural dynamic was more like a Beatles vibe, with two main guys, but Glyn pushed hard to make sure Randy and I had two songs each on Desperado, and it worked out OK.” While both Leadon and Stone believe the friction and creative tension was a positive force initially, it quickly became a problem. Shortly into the recording of their third record, On The Border, they sacked Johns. “We fell out, really,” he says. “Henley and Frey treated the others like inferior beings – particularly Frey. I didn’t like what I was seeing at all and I made that fairly obvious.” Don Felder came in on extra guitar and the sound toughened. Not much later Leadon left, then Meisner. “Democracy does not serve the creative impulse well,” shrugs Browne. “In the end, Don and Glenn just took over the band.”

[Delilah]

Thanks for those links and quotes, Dawn and UndertheWire. Interesting how the two articles present different perspectives.

[UndertheWire]

Here's some 1980s quotes from Musician:

Don Henley:


HENLEY: We tried to be a democracy and we weren't because that never really works for very long. Everybody got to say their piece, but ultimately Glenn Frey and I would have the last say.
...
Glenn was always the first guy'to rebel, and so he'd been checking out American producers. He listened to some of Bill Szymczyk's stuff with J. Geils and "Frankenstein" by Edgar Winter and liked the way that stuff sounded. So he said, "I think we should go with this guy Szymczyk."
...
I don't know how we stayed together as long as we did. I mean, you have to subordinate your ego to the songs; the song is the most important thing and if the albums aren't good, then we all lose. It drove Glenn and me completely crazy and gave us grey hairs and ulcers, because everybody wants to be quarterback, everybody wants to be the guy who sings and writes the songs. The quarterback is the guy who gets all the glory and the credit and the girls. And the guys who block are the unsung heroes. But we all managed to do it for ten years, before this "Eagle" thing started to get in the way.
...
I think it started right after Hotel California. That's when Glenn and I started growing in opposite directions.
MUSICIAN: Up to that point you had been friends.

HENLEY: We were like brothers; we lived together And then we had sown all our wild oats and we each wanted a steady girlfriend. There would be times when he would have a girlfriend and I wouldn't. Or I'd have a girlfriend and he wouldn't, and it just sort of separated us. You get so close that you can't stand each other sometimes, you know each other so well. And I wanted to write all about all these social issues and he didn't necessarily and we just grew apart musically and philosophically. A lot of things happened during The Long Run.

MUSICIAN: To force it in a way?

HENLEY: Yes. Glenn and Felder were at odds. Glenn just got tired of being the boss and being hated for it. With the king's life comes the king's work. If you're a leader, people are going to respect you and follow you, butthey're going to hate you at the same time. So that just got to be too much.



We just got tired. It's as simple as that-we just got tired. We ran out of inspiration, and to follow Hotel California was such a monumental task that it just scared us. Glenn felt like he was a great coach who put this team together and then didn't get to express himself enough. Due to fatigue and craziness and nervousness, some verbal exchanges went down during the making of The Long Run that didn't heal. We used to get in a room and just fight it out and talk it out, but it got to the point after awhile that we stopped communicating-and that's death.link (http://alumnus.caltech.edu/~markowit/interviews/dh/musician/musician.html).


and Glenn's response:



MUSICIAN: Don Henley did an interview with us last year in which he .... (Frey snatches the copies of the interview and reads underlined passages, then pronounces, "absolutely true... that one's absolutely true...... He hands the pages back) So is it true, as Henley says, that the Eagles drove you and him crazy because everyone wanted to be quarterback, that you got tired of being the boss and being hated for it, that you were a great coach who had put this team together and didn't get to express yourself enough?
FREY, (deliberately) The thing is, when you're in a band, it's suppose to be equal. And when people emerge as having strengths in certain areas, other people are so resentful of having that strength,. Everybody makes this big thing about Don Henley and I being the reason for the split in the Eagles, but I'm here to tell you right now that Joe Walsh and Don Felder-and others-created as much turbulence for our band as everybody else did, just because they're frustrated quarterbacks. All I'm saying is that in a band, it's a fake democracy. The roles are not so defined.
The thing is, in the Eagles, everybody brought things to Henley, he was the lyrical genius, the English Literature major who could help us put tense stories together. So I wasn't encouraging anybody to do anything in the Eagles that I wasn't doing, just giving my music to him heard....
MUSICIAN: He calls you "The glue."
FREY: I was. I guess so. That's very nice. That's another reason why I couldn't understand all these disturbances from the other players in the band, because I was subordinating myself. And why couldn't somebody else see their way to take a step backward and do what they do the best, 'cause that's really what grated on me. They didn't make subordinating myself a worthwhile job anymore. Besides being the glue, I was also the guy who said, "You sing this, I'll play lead on this-not me, I'd love to but.. ." The bass players never gave us any trouble, though. It was the guitar players.link (http://alumnus.caltech.edu/%7Emarkowit/interviews/gf/musician/musician.html)

[Delilah]

Wow, great articles. I don't think I've read those before, although a couple of quotes sound familiar. Thanks!

[Funk 50]

Thanks UndertheWire, that's great reading :)

[UndertheWire]

In the last few weeks, I've read an old interview from around 1975 in which either Don or Glenn said they didn't have a leader. It may have been a scan from a newspaper or magazine. Does anyone else remember this?

This is an interview with Glenn from 1992 in which he acknowledges that drugs were part of the problem:

Plus, both Henley and I had developed drug habits, which didn't help matters.
...
'When I gave up snorting I found I didn't need to drink any more and started to behave like a human- being again.'
There's a lot more as well as an explanation of why they weren't going to get back together. link (http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/interview-an-eagle-lands-glenn-frey-tells-lloyd-bradley-about-life-after-the-eagles-1530716.html)

[Annoying Twit]

I think these recent articles show the problem in attributing the amount of leadership different members have. The articles conflict with each other.

I don't think we really have an exact view of the leadership dynamics in Eagles. Not because anyone's lying, but more likely because people's memories of even the same events differ. Particularly when drugs are being consumed.

[New Kid In Town]

Thank You UTW - I have seen that interview numerous times.

[Brooke]

UtW, thanks for all of these!

I think AT is right about everyone's memories of certain things differing. Sometimes, and I find myself doing this, you remember how something happened, but over time, you think, "did that really happen or was it wishful thinking that somehow became truth?". KWIM?

[Dawn]

We, Don in particular, said a mouthful on Hotel California and a big part of the problem was 'What do we talk about now?' Then, because of what we were as members of The Eagles, we had far fewer real-life experiences to draw on. - Glenn Frey

This is very insightful ... fewer real life experiences to draw upon ... The price of success left them with little to want for except the kind of experiences fame and fortune can't buy.

[Delilah]

In the last few weeks, I've read an old interview from around 1975 in which either Don or Glenn said they didn't have a leader. It may have been a scan from a newspaper or magazine. Does anyone else remember this?

Could this be it? I posted it on this thread. (https://www.eaglesonlinecentral.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1554&page=24) The UCR article itself is from 2016.


“The important thing to remember with this group is that the whole is bigger than the sum of its parts,” Henley told Hit Parader. “The Eagles and what we’ve created is bigger than all five of us put together. It’s hard when five guys want to do everything. You see, there’s no leader in the Eagles, because everybody is an egomaniac. X can be leader for one day before someone rises up and says ‘F— you.’ It’s so hard, but that’s what keeps things getting better.”

Read More: "How the Eagles Steered From Country to Rock With 'On the Border'" http://ultimateclassicrock.com/eagles-on-the-border/?trackback=tsmclip

[UndertheWire]

Yes, that's what I was thinking of. Presumably the interview with Hit Parader was around 1975.

[New Kid In Town]

UTW - I think back in 1975 this might have been in the period when Glenn and Don were trying to make it seem like everyone had a say and there was no leader. I am going to use the quote you used by Glenn:
To quote Glenn directly:Quote: The band was like a fake democracy. Henley and I were making the decisions while at the same time trying to pacify, include, and cajole the others.
I have a feeling this is how it really was. At that point in 1975, they were still trying to keep Bernie happy to keep him from leaving. Although from what I have read, Bernie had pretty much decided to leave well before Dec.'75 when he quit.

Dawn - I agree with that quote. I was just looking through the book "The Eagles-Flying High". Of course I can't find the quote right now(which is in the book), but Glenn also stated they had lived such a sheltered life(So to speak) because they were constantly on the road surrendered by roadies, assistants and "yes people" who catered to their every whim. They did not have to do anything for themselves. Their life revolved around hotels, planes, and concert gigs. Because of this, they never got to "grow" like most people in their 20's. I think this was probably especially true for Glenn and Don, who seemed to have more "help"/hanger-ons than the others.