Discussion about Felder's contributions in the Eagles

Well Austin - I remember when you were a staunch defender of all things Felder. And although, I, obviously, didn't always agree with you, I always thought you were sincere and passionate about your views. What always bothers me much more is when misinformed fans come to the board solely for the purpose of arguing with members and totally misrepresent the facts. As fans, none of us know these men and all of the facts behind their relationships; however, as you said, there are plenty of facts about the band members patterns of behavior that fans can use to form opinions if they care to. As we always say, everyone is entitled to an opinion, but, if debate is going to be fair, we shouldn't let emotions get in the way of facts.

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Originally Posted by WalshFan88

I felt like this was a better place to post this. I was going to post it in response to thebagels video link they posted in the video thread but decided it was better to put it here with similar thoughts.

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Honestly, seeing this whole bowing routine was laughable as it smacked of ritualistic fakery to me. It kind of reminded me of the bow we did at the end of our second grade play. Why do they have to hold hands and raise them up in the air? It's meant to be a rock concert, not Broadway.

Oh wait; we're talking about the guy who's used prerecorded vocal tracks since 2014 or 2015. In fact, even in the video, you can see Don's guitar tech starting the "American Rock and Roll" track at the end of the bow.

The fact that people give a standing ovation to such a formulaic show that is timed right down to the beat gives me a bit of pause.

The unfortunate part about all of this is that on many occasions where Don has to be more spontaneous (like when he played Wooden Ships with CSN or sang Hotel California at the R&R HOF), he is actually able to deliver fine vocal performances and great guitar performances.

I believe I've seen some other bands do that same thing and even repeating it several times; holding hands, raising them, bowing and the works. So I didn't find it that odd. Although those have been bigger concerts at bigger venues.

Well, I'm not sure about raised hands, but I think Kiss may have done that.

Many bands have done some version of the hands together. It doesn’t matter to me. It’s whatever. In a way it’s like all for one one for all and finalizes a show. Whatever the artist is comfortable.

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Originally Posted by KingWalsh

Many bands have done some version of the hands together. It doesn’t matter to me. It’s whatever. In a way it’s like all for one one for all and finalizes a show. Whatever the artist is comfortable.

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Oh no, that does happen. I think the Eagles even did that.

It more about the way Don went about it. I'll post a video of Don faking excitement later and the end of the song saying "oh my god" as if it was a miracle they pulled off. :lol:

He's just a little too "fake" for me. The bow seemed over the top in the up/down thing and it just seemed like a showboat way to do it. If you do those bows long enough you naturally know when to go up or down and doesn't look forced. I just think he's making up for lost time of not being the lead man in the Eagles by being as much of an over-the-top showman as he can. You can tell that he really loves that. It bothers me. It's like someone going for the opposite type of person after a break-up just to p!ss the ex off even though you know you can't be with them or should be with them. It reeks of childishness and being oppositional for the sake of being oppositional. Not a good look, TBH.

Which has been my point all along about Glenn vs Felder. Glenn was naturally a frontman with non-forced moves and stage presence that didn't seem so fake. He was naturally fit for that role. If you are, you are, if you're not, well don't try because it looks silly! Let alone the fact he's not a lead singer. When you couple someone trying to sing but can't with someone trying to be a frontman or showman but can't - it just is cringe city. It makes Don look vain and egocentric - which I have no doubt that he actually is.

I mean can you imagine how good the Felder band could be if Don did like 2 changes?

1 - get two singers. Or at least one that can do Henley songs reasonably well. Hire someone from an Eagles tribute or Nashville - whatever. Maybe find a band member who can sing Frey's songs reasonably well or just hire a second singer. Maybe one of those singers could play some rhythm guitar to fill out the 3 guitar sound of the Eagles music.

2 - reclaim your old place as the lead guitarist, let your singers take center stage. If not, put them on either side of you. Work on playing guitar. Talk to your audience sure, but drop the forced stage prescence. Play the hell out of the guitar. Make sure your other guitarist is really good at playing Walsh's parts. Work on building a real rapport with them not just someone you barely know you hired from a touring agency. Make that dynamic duo thing happen again. Really have fun. Drop the idea of being something you can't and really don't let your true talents go away. Put yourself in a position to shine, and I don't mean with a spotlight. ;) I think Felder would deep down enjoy this.

That would get me to go see Don again. I would even say on the surface I would thoroughly enjoy myself! I mean now that I have no desire to see the Eagles again, this purposed scenario might just be the next best thing. Do I think Don will do it. Well let's just say if I were to hold my breath I'd be in the ground before I saw that show! :grin:

Pardon, I was wrong. It wasn't "oh my god!" afterall.
It was "oh my goodness gracious!". That's something my grandma would say to me as a kid after I told her something excited I did. :hilarious: I think it's even worse.

He says it at 5:10 in the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xY8DuczxGgM

I agree that he's not a frontman. But the grand announcement about his accomplishments before every gig (I've NEVER heard anyone else have that) and the three-minute life story in the space of a song (never heard anyone else do that either) make it clear who's THE STAR on that stage.

Does that "oh my goodness gracious" come from the PA or did the phone pick it up "acoustically"? Sounds like he's lip-syncing, but I guess his mic could still be on.

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Originally Posted by chaim

Does that "oh my goodness gracious" come from the PA or did the phone pick it up "acoustically"? Sounds like he's lip-syncing, but I guess his mic could still be on.

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Not 100 percent sure, but probably phone picked it up but as close as he was its possible it faintly bled into the mic! But it's still so awkward. It seems so forced. :lol:

Even if only his bandmates could hear it, do they really need to hear a 70-something dude saying "oh my goodness gracious" as they finish a song?! How about good job, guys or "yeah" or some other words of encouragement or something less phony than feigned shock and excitement?! :hilarious:

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Originally Posted by chaim

I agree that he's not a frontman. But the grand announcement about his accomplishments before every gig (I've NEVER heard anyone else have that) and the three-minute life story in the space of a song (never heard anyone else do that either) make it clear who's THE STAR on that stage.

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I do think it stems just from pent up desires from not getting to do that in the 70s/80s/90s. He thought he was cooler than he was, better than he was, or thought he was a leader. "You Don't Have Me" pretty much tells you his mindset. And fine. But you've had how many years to get it out of your system and feed your ego? You're 73 years old. Maybe leave the nanana booboos behind. I can kinda see why he's had so many failed relationships. It's sad. If the man would have invested in some "Soul Searchin'" in therapy, maybe he'd be living a happier life in his golden years. Don can say he's the happiest he's ever been, but his attitude and behavior paint a different picture. I feel sorry for Don. No one should have to go through life feeling like they go unappreciated or feeling victimized real or imagined. But play to your strengths and maybe grow a bit.

I wonder if there's some Joe Walsh influence there as well? Joe is a guitarist in the Eagles, but an accomplished solo artist as a frontman as well. Maybe Don doesn't want to be "the Eagles guitarist who only plays". Who knows. Seems that we agree that 1) Don is a great guitarist and 2) he's no frontman.

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Originally Posted by chaim

I wonder if there's some Joe Walsh influence there as well? Joe is a guitarist in the Eagles, but an accomplished solo artist as a frontman as well. Maybe Don doesn't want to be "the Eagles guitarist who only plays". Who knows. Seems that we agree that 1) Don is a great guitarist and 2) he's no frontman.

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Good point! I didn’t even think of Joe envy. Joe might not be the smoothest golden throat out there but I love his singing and entertaining. Good frontman too.

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Originally Posted by chaim

I wonder if there's some Joe Walsh influence there as well? Joe is a guitarist in the Eagles, but an accomplished solo artist as a frontman as well. Maybe Don doesn't want to be "the Eagles guitarist who only plays". Who knows. Seems that we agree that 1) Don is a great guitarist and 2) he's no frontman.

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I'm not sure. Joe is apparently a "hired hand" while I suspect Don still has some ongoing business relationship with the Eagles that may put him (in a corporate sense) above Joe (as Don implied at the beginning of the Howard Stern interview).


I don't think Don has much to worry about as Joe doesn't sing the most in-tune (although his voice has great rhythmic feeling and character), and Don has more technical prowess than Joe.

As for the bowing thing, the reason it seemed "fake" to me was because of the routine Don went through.

"1,2,3, up!"
"1,2,3, down!"
"And go up; oh, here we go!"

"Here we go" with what? They're done lmao

Lots of feigned excitement imo.

I wasn't thinking of Joe as a singer as much as a frontman, which includes singing and interacting with the audience. I don't necessarily believe that Joe has been an influence to Don, but SOMETHING does drive Don to be a frontman even to the point where he rather lip-syncs that hires a singer.

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Originally Posted by thebagels

I'm not sure. Joe is apparently a "hired hand" while I suspect Don still has some ongoing business relationship with the Eagles that may put him (in a corporate sense) above Joe (as Don implied at the beginning of the Howard Stern interview).


I don't think Don has much to worry about as Joe doesn't sing the most in-tune (although his voice has great rhythmic feeling and character), and Don has more technical prowess than Joe.

As for the bowing thing, the reason it seemed "fake" to me was because of the routine Don went through.

"1,2,3, up!"
"1,2,3, down!"
"And go up; oh, here we go!"

"Here we go" with what? They're done lmao

Lots of feigned excitement imo.

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I agree Don is more technically proficient on guitar than Joe, no question but I don't think that means better guitarist rather than just a different approach. I mean he knows more theory but it's possible to be very appealing and have a great sound and tone and style without having a surgical like precision or a lot of other scales on tap. But does it mean Don would be envious of Joe on guitar, probably not. That's just my personal thing. I prefer a bluesier raw thing. Some people like Steve Vai or Larry Carlton. Some people want to hear Angus Young or Joe Perry. I'm in the latter camp. BUT, I think in a multi guitar band having one of each approach really is a wonderful thing. Be it Felder/Walsh, Perry/Whitford, Clark/Collen, etc. Yin and yang thing that is classic.

Joe isn't a Don Henley type of singer but he sings very well with a characteristic voice (which again can be a good thing or bad thing but can be as great as a smooth voice with a lot of range) and can sing in tune, at least he did on those Eagles songs he sang lead on. There is a reason there is only 1 DF lead vocal on an Eagles track (to which I'm surprised they even allowed). Joe didn't sing a ton but he did way more than Felder, especially including bringing his James Gang and solo music into live shows. Don Felder is a terrible singer. Even when he isn't autotuned, he just has this rasp and not the good kind. You can be Rod Stewart and have a rasp everyone loves or you can sound like nails on a chalkboard. He's also a very cringy showman who just can't find the natural stage presence to have. He truly is a sideman and a hired hand also. I think he seems awkward taking center stage like that. He *can* do the step out stuff on guitar like a bad@ss and can stand toe to toe with anyone on a solo.

In that regard, I could see Felder being envious of being both a guitarist AND a frontman/singer. You know who else could do both? Glenn Frey! His arch nemesis until the end.

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Originally Posted by WalshFan88

I agree Don is more technically proficient on guitar than Joe, no question but I don't think that means better guitarist rather than just a different approach. I mean he knows more theory but it's possible to be very appealing and have a great sound and tone and style without having a surgical like precision or a lot of other scales on tap. But does it mean Don would be envious of Joe on guitar, probably not. That's just my personal thing. I prefer a bluesier raw thing. Some people like Steve Vai or Larry Carlton. Some people want to hear Angus Young or Joe Perry. I'm in the latter camp. BUT, I think in a multi guitar band having one of each approach really is a wonderful thing. Be it Felder/Walsh, Perry/Whitford, Clark/Collen, etc. Yin and yang thing that is classic.

Joe isn't a Don Henley type of singer but he sings very well with a characteristic voice (which again can be a good thing or bad thing but can be as great as a smooth voice with a lot of range) and can sing in tune, at least he did on those Eagles songs he sang lead on. There is a reason there is only 1 DF lead vocal on an Eagles track (to which I'm surprised they even allowed). Joe didn't sing a ton but he did way more than Felder, especially including bringing his James Gang and solo music into live shows. Don Felder is a terrible singer. Even when he isn't autotuned, he just has this rasp and not the good kind. You can be Rod Stewart and have a rasp everyone loves or you can sound like nails on a chalkboard. He's also a very cringy showman who just can't find the natural stage presence to have. He truly is a sideman and a hired hand also. I think he seems awkward taking center stage like that. He *can* do the step out stuff on guitar like a bad@ss and can stand toe to toe with anyone on a solo.

In that regard, I could see Felder being envious of being both a guitarist AND a frontman/singer. You know who else could do both? Glenn Frey! His arch nemesis until the end.

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To me it's really a wash between who's "better" on guitar; as you said, the approaches are different but complementary when they're together. I always liked the way Joe really had a great rhythmic feel where he'd just get with a groove. Don can do that too, but it seems like there's more polish (which I like) and less accenting of strong beats (I prefer some accenting as it can give the playing a lyrical sort of quality imo).

I agree that Don's not a good singer. I think he did okay on Heavy Metal, but it really sounds like he was trying to rip off Henley's vocal style. It didn't work out super well to my ear, but it seems miles better than his singing now.

I think you hit the nail on the head with the last part. Don has always stated that he has admiration for people who can play, write and sing. Of course, Don can play, so there's no problem there. Singing has been addressed. I think he's good at writing "music beds" and guitar parts, but when it comes to lyrics:

"Gimme that good ol' American rock and roll"

Yeah; Henley and Glenn probably don't have much to be concerned about. Maybe he is envious.

Actually, it kind of makes sense as Don seems to really like getting applause.

He wrote about playing the intro to Hotel and other songs in his book and the accompanying roar of the crowd at least 3x in his book.

His concert speech before "The Long Run" is filled with cheap applause lines, and his band models the expected behavior by leading the claps.

He also has a very particular set of motions he does after Hotel. First, he bursts into a huge smile, then he raises his guitar over his head, and then he does the bow thing.

Austin, you seem to have more onstage experience than I (especially in a rock context), so correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like this routine is designed to encourage a standing ovation?

Regardless, maybe this is his way of getting the adulation that he didn't get much onstage. Other than Hotel, it seems like Don never had the stage presence that could captivate the audience and get them to cheer him on. Even Tim could do that when he started singing Keep On Tryin', not to mention his solo songs.

I have to say that I actually kind of like Don's voice. The actual voice. But it gets a bit tiring after a while. But I'm sure some would say the same about Joe's voice. 😂

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Originally Posted by thebagels

Austin, you seem to have more onstage experience than I (especially in a rock context), so correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like this routine is designed to encourage a standing ovation?

Regardless, maybe this is his way of getting the adulation that he didn't get much onstage. Other than Hotel, it seems like Don never had the stage presence that could captivate the audience and get them to cheer him on. Even Tim could do that when he started singing Keep On Tryin', not to mention his solo songs.

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I'm definitely not in the touring business but in my experience playing cover/tribute gigs outside or in a club or something like that, you would probably try to do that for your last song to get a standing O or at least a big sendoff. I mean most bar bands aren't throwing out picks or leaving the stage for an encore. So I can't comment on that. But yes a big ending is something you might try to do. But for Don Felder he can throw out picks but probably can't do a big encore unless he is playing as the only act, and if it's a private paid thing, trying to pull off an encore would be very cringy and at a casino or something, I just don't think people would go for it. I mean it's the Don Felder band. lol

See Don is usually the opener, often times the first of three acts, the first opener. You can't really walk offstage before Hotel Cali and then come back for a roaring encore. There just isn't time and the headliner wouldn't like you getting that attention, lol. I have no doubt Don misses that aspect of the Eagles. Going offstage and coming back to a roar.

I think Don would love to be in a band that could do an encore. There is no doubt he is wanting that final hoorah and maybe by getting so excited after a song is over he is trying to have an encore like response. It just makes him look silly for calling Glenn arrogant or narcissistic when I think Glenn wasn't near as much, and Don was projecting.

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Originally Posted by chaim

I have to say that I actually kind of like Don's voice. The actual voice. But it gets a bit tiring after a while. But I'm sure some would say the same about Joe's voice. 😂

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I think when he tries to do Henley material is when it is peak-cringe. lol. The voice of him singing at the Met doing a bit of Hotel California without autotune was a little painful to listen to.

Joe would not get any accolades for a perfect voice, but it sounds "right" when he sings and it just has a character to it that makes up for it's imperfections. It doesn't have that 'rub', almost akin to playing a note that isn't exactly in tune that you can tell is the right note but is just off enough to grate at you like DF's voice does.

His speaking voice is just fine if not a little sedate. But when he tries to sing high, it just doesn't work for me.

Well, a lot to quote and such, making for a reeeeaaaal long post, and agree with a lot Walshfan says...but if I must say....obviously I’m a Joe fan duh. His voice isn’t perfect but that’s what I love and is unique and couldn’t imagine anyone else singing his songs. I love his playing because there is so much feeling and I too lean towards a bluesy player. As a guitarist myself, he is a GIANT to me. Another fave of mine is Frehley.

I do feel that Felder is jealous of Joe. In his book he made it known that he knew jazz and looked down at straight ahead rock at one point. His book was full of put downs, some so petty, of all band members and he seemed oddly obsessed with everyone’s hair and even had to comment that Joes iconic bandana was donned because he didn’t wash his hair. :eye roll:

all that preamble before the concerts and whatnot is cringy. I watched again with the up down up down hands, ya it’s a bit over done. Lol. As it’s been said before He is insecure. Always has been. Such a shame because he has such a talent that he tarnished with his behavior. I am not a fan of his voice. But he isn’t too bad for a song or two, and stop the damn auto tune.

I haven’t seen Don live, (besides YouTube) but with him playing so many Eagles tunes I wonder how many in the crowd think he actually had a part in writing many of them? Just wondering.

Well, I have to say I pretty much agree with what everyone has said. I personally do not particularly care for Don's voice. Not the worst in the world but nothing to write home about-lol. However, he is an amazing guitar player - one of the best, and he should be proud of that. Austin, I agree with you - he needs to hire a lead singer and then just do what he does best - his amazing guitar playing. I think Don has always wanted to be a lead singer and resented Don and Glenn that they would never give him a lead song after Visions. He was hired for his amazing guitar playing, not his voice. In fact, if you watch You Tube videos from the 70's he rarely sings. He contributed a lot to the sound of the Eagles and helped take them to super star status. It's a shame that he could never accept that he was not a lead singer and just be happy that he was in one of the biggest bands in rock history. His constant complaining and passive/aggressive behavior would have got on my nerves big time.

Indeed, Joe has a unique voice. If it's a funny song, his voice sounds hilarious. If it's a beautiful song, his voice sounds lovely.

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Originally Posted by KingWalsh

I haven’t seen Don live, (besides YouTube) but with him playing so many Eagles tunes I wonder how many in the crowd think he actually had a part in writing many of them? Just wondering.

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I'll start by saying that I think Felder really did have a hand in the arrangements/instrumental parts of the songs they did, even the early ones like TIE and PEF as they were performed in the '90s.

For example, the current version of the Eagles still plays Don's arrangement of PEF right down to the same lick after "I've got a peaceful easy feeling" in the chorus and the chord change after "I know you won't let me down."

Of course he wrote many parts to songs in the '70s that he wasn't given songwriter credit for (iirc Randy said in an interview that Don wrote the bassline to OOTN even though he's not credited as a writer on it).

So I really have no problem with him performing the songs he does currently especially since he always says before PEF and TIE "this song is from 1971."

To respond to your question directly, it depends, I think, on how knowledgable the fanbase is as well as how much they care about such things. I saw Steve Augeri (Steve Perry replacement in Journey who recorded a few albums of original material with them) perform. Small crowd, and the setlist was about 80% Perry songs. I was a bit surprised at how off-key Augeri sung years after he left Journey as he did well on a few tracks he recorded 2-3 years after he left Journey and had let his voice rest. But no one really cared about the flat vocal or medleys of Perry song after Perry song, and everyone (mostly drunk iirc) had fun.

On the flipside, kpop fans will absolutely flip their shit if certain members are missing from concerts or if certain songs aren't performed.

Ray Wilson performing Genesis songs from different eras is weirder than Don performing Eagles songs he played for years, that's for sure. Ray did one album and, as far as I know, not too many gigs with them.

Although he doesn't have to, it's great that Don makes it clear that some of the songs he performs were recorded before he joined. I remember when he said in an interview several years ago that "Originally, when we first started, there five guys in the band"...

Just to clarify, not saying he shouldn’t perform them, but I wonder that about a lot of performers who have come and go from various bands when they do solo gigs and perform previous groups works. It is true that songs often have input from various members of bands yet they don’t get Songwriting credits. I think that is true in most bands, that’s what bands do.... they come up with little bits and ideas as the song develops.

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Originally Posted by KingWalsh

Just to clarify, not saying he shouldn’t perform them, but I wonder that about a lot of performers who have come and go from various bands when they do solo gigs and perform previous groups works. It is true that songs often have input from various members of bands yet they don’t get Songwriting credits. I think that is true in most bands, that’s what bands do.... they come up with little bits and ideas as the song develops.

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True. Btw, I've never understood why many people, including Don himself, have said that Don came up with the OOTN bassline, "although he isn't credited as a songwriter". When was Randy credited as a songwriter for coming up with a bass part?? Writing a bassline is not songwriting. Or do they mean the OOTN intro?

Gene Simmons wrote the main riff for a few early Stanley tunes, but he's not credited. Black Diamond, Love Her All I Can, Firehouse.. Those riffs were basslines Gene wrote for himself to play, but Paul and Ace decided to play them too, so they became the main riffs.

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Originally Posted by chaim

True. Btw, I've never understood why many people, including Don himself, have said that Don came up with the OOTN bassline, "although he isn't credited as a songwriter". When was Randy credited as a songwriter for coming up with a bass part?? Writing a bassline is not songwriting. Or do they mean the OOTN intro?

Gene Simmons wrote the main riff for a few early Stanley tunes, but he's not credited. Black Diamond, Love Her All I Can, Firehouse.. Those riffs were basslines Gene wrote for himself to play, but Paul and Ace decided to play them too, so they became the main riffs.

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He came up with the intro too if I'm not mistaken. I should have made that clear.

It's difficult to know imo when to draw the line regarding credit for songwriting. Joe gets songwriting credit for the "Life in the Fast Lane" lick, but Don doesn't get songwriting credit for the "Already Gone" lick although they are both played in the intros and choruses. I also suspect (based on what I heard Don playing on his pre-Eagles recordings and his guitar playing in general) that Don probably came up with significant portions of the NKIT arrangement (really complex harmonically, structurally, chordally, etc. compared to all of the early Eagles stuff), but he's not credited for that. Yet he gets credit for HC (which is fair considering he apparently wrote all or almost all of the music except for Joe's guitar parts and the descending harmony guitar line at the end).

Don came up with the Already Gone lick, not Glenn?

Anyway, I wasn't referring to just your post. I've seen it mentioned quite often that Don wrote the bassline for OOTN, but wasn't credited as a songwriter. People always say "bassline", but I assume they must mean the bass lick that starts the song.

And IF Don had something to do with the NKIT chords, he has my respect. That song is a monster in terms of chords and modulations.

Yeah - Songwriting credits can get sticky since each band draws their own lines about who gets credited for what. I always wondered why Joe didn't get credit for his significant contribution on the Hotel California outro. TBH, I don't recall ever hearing anything about any significant contributions by Felder on NKIT. If my memory serves me correctly, Felder doesn't mention anything about it in his book and here is what Glenn and Don said about the song in The Very Best of the Eagles booklet ...

NEW KID IN TOWN

GLENN: We won a Grammy® for Best Vocal Arrangement for "New Kid In Town." I'm quite proud of that.

DON: J.D. Souther started the song. It's about the fleeting, fickle nature of love and romance. It's also about the fleeting nature of fame, especially in the music business. We were already chronicling our own demise [laughs]. We were basically saying, "Look, we know we're red hot now, but we also know that somebody's going to come along and replace us -- both in music and in love." We were always doing that double entendre thing, between the music business and personal relationships. But that song was J.D.'s baby -- he was the father of that song.

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Originally Posted by chaim

Don came up with the Already Gone lick, not Glenn?

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Maybe Glenn came up with the lick, but if that's the case, it would really surprise me if he's playing that lick and all of the guitar fills on the record simply because the tone/timing of the guitar sounds more similar to Don than Glenn to my ear. The tone of the guitar is also consistent from the chorus licks to the Felder part in the solo, but Glenn's part in the solo sounds a bit different tonally to me. Also, Don would play all of those fills and the lick live and sounded much the same as the record imo.

Of course, it's ultimately speculation on my part. Taking apart the arrangements and trying to determine how the instrumental/vocal parts are laid out is generally pretty instructive to me, so any info about who actually did what is always cool to learn.

To respond to I've always been a dreamer, what sets NKIT apart from earlier Eagles releases imo is the way it's laid out. There aren't many fills during the vocals, but they happen in the gaps between them. afaik that's a Felder tendency as Bernie tended to play fills a lot more frequently than Don in the early Eagles. Also, many of the chords use the open B and E strings and walk up and down to different chords using arpeggios. Signature Felder tendency to my ear; he did that all throughout his time with the Eagles and afterwards.

I'm willing to buy that JD or Glenn could have contributed a lot more to the arrangement than I'm aware of, but NKIT doesn't sound too much to my ear like the way Glenn arranged songs (it has some of his tendencies, but the structure is unlike his solo stuff imo).

Desperado had a fairly complex arrangement too, but it was played more chordally, and you didn't really see the same tendencies of very clear walkups, walkdowns, emphasis on suspended chords and open strings, etc. All that is how Don arranges songs, however.

I'm sure it was Don's idea to play those pre-chorus chords in NKIT as arpeggios, but the actual chords probably came from JD or Glenn. (?) And Don probably did come up with all the guitar fills. I thought you were talking about the actual chords.

As for the Already Gone riff, I trust your ear. I have a lousy ear when it comes to sounds. I've always felt that the riff leads logically to Glenn's part in the solo playing-wise, but I haven't played attention to sound. There's a video clip on YouTube where Glenn plays those licks, because Don missed the gig (was it when his first child was born?). I've always thought that Don's only contribution to the studio version was the high sustained notes above Glenn's solo. But I've been terribly wrong about Eagles guitar parts!

Adding to my NKIT comment above....Didn't Glenn strum those ascending pre-chorus chords as well?

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Originally Posted by chaim

Adding to my NKIT comment above....Didn't Glenn strum those ascending pre-chorus chords as well?

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He did, but played a full closed chord on the F#m and (if my ear isn't wrong) and didn't change from a suspended chord to a straight major on G#.

So yeah; I could probably agree that Glenn and/or JD wrote the chords.

As for the Eagles show at Ontario Motor Speedway (yeah; iirc that was within days of the birth of Don's kid if not the same day), Glenn plays the basic lick, but doesn't do any takeoffs on it like Felder did.

What gives me a bit of pause is that in the last verse, Glenn does the same lick that's on the record in the spot after "heaven knows it wasn't you who set me free."

This makes me think that Glenn may have played more lead guitar on the record than I previously believed, but even that lick has a pinch harmonic on the record. I have never heard Glenn do a pinch harmonic anywhere else, but that doesn't mean he didn't do it on the record.

I have heard Glenn do several pinch harmonics in the early performances. Don't remember if all of them were successful. 😃

Trying to remember where I've heard Glenn do pinch harmonics...The only example I can recall right now is a short jam between Glenn and Bernie before WW, but that performance doesn't seem to be on YouTube.

With Already Gone, the story was that it was recorded without Felder but after he was invited to join, he recorded the additional guitar part.

The lick thebagels is talking about in the last verse sure sounds like a Glenn-ism to me. That just sounds more like Glenn to me. I think Don played it in a lot of the shows because while it's just a simple blues lick, it is too funky to pull off and sing at the same and come back in at the right time. Ask me how I know that. :grin: I've since delegated that lick and some of the fills to the other electric player in the band seeing as I also sing Already Gone. I do Glenn's solo and I also end up playing the Bernie intro. The other guy plays the main line and fills and Don's solo.

My belief is that Bernie came up with the Tele country thing on the intro that he always played and then Joe took over. Glenn played the more audible solo on record. The Felder solo that was overdubbed is buried in the mix but if you've heard Felder play it live, it's easier to hear in the dense mix of a record and it's definitely there. As far as that main repeating line, it's really a toss up between Glenn and Don. It could be either of them. That lick doesn't have a lot of personality (don't get me wrong, it's a great line!), or any identifiable stylistic things that make me say definitively who it is. It's not just a simple lick, but it's one that everyone sounds the same playing it. I would maybe lean towards Don. Especially on the fill bits that get added to the back half of it.

One reason that Glenn probably didn't play the takeoffs that are tailed onto the main repeating lick goes back to what I said about the other lick. It's hard to do that and sing and be in time. If they were Don's licks, Glenn could have played them, they aren't anything technical, but probably not while he's singing. So that Cal Jam version does sound a little bare to me but it's hard to do both and obviously being in time and singing in tempo is more important than replicating every single fill.

Speaking of Already Gone....I saw the band in 1996, and I remember a funny moment between Glenn and Don F. Glenn was playing a solo (probably Already Gone) and Don came to "adjust" one of Glenn's tuning pegs, to "help" him get back in tune. Glenn laughed and I could read his lips saying "thanks".

Now, sometimes I wonder if my head created a memory, but I'm sure that did happen. Was it a planned thing they did at every concert or a spontaneous joke from Don?

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Originally Posted by chaim

Speaking of Already Gone....I saw the band in 1996, and I remember a funny moment between Glenn and Don F. Glenn was playing a solo (probably Already Gone) and Don came to "adjust" one of Glenn's tuning pegs, to "help" him get back in tune. Glenn laughed and I could read his lips saying "thanks".

Now, sometimes I wonder if my head created a memory, but I'm sure that did happen. Was it a planned thing they did at every concert or a spontaneous joke from Don?

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They didn't do in Buffalo in 1994 or at Christchurch in 1995. That doesn't mean that it was a spontaneous moment though as it does seem like the Eagles shows from the 90s and later were more theatrical in nature than in the 70s.