Discussion about Felder's contributions in the Eagles

[edwardd19]

for those of you saying that Don and Glenn were the only ones who kept the name alive. why dont ya look up the facts....
Don and glenn were the only ones keeping the Eagles name alive...

In the 80's

Randy released three albums and had four top forty songs. Toured with his band the Silverados. He was also part of Black Tie and Meisner Rich and Swan bands.

Felder released one solo album
Did the soundtrack to the animated series Galaxy High
Hosted a tv show.
Contributed two songs to the Heavy Metal soundtrack including the title track, and recorded a song "Wild Life" for the Slugger's Wife movie.

---

It failed to mention that Frey's music career stalled by the mid to late 80's. Take away his soundtrack work and his solo albums would be nearly invisible.

His TV series was cancelled after one airing.

[edwardd19]

You guys over-simplified things. Felder is one third owner of Eagles LTD. He is entitled by law. On a more obvious note, without Felder, there would be no One of These NIghts, no Hotel California, no Victim of Love. If those songs were not in existence, the Eagles would be no where near as popular as they are now. ( And yes all of you ready to pounce on your keyboards about "One of These Nights", he wrote the intro, the entire bass line and the solo) Give credit where it's due.
The "Eagles Limited" agreement was a legal, binding agreement, and if you'll watch the documentary, you'll see Henley shrug his shoulders and say something like, "well things change, people move on," in response to the Eagles Limited topic. Well, a judge decided that while people do move on, you can't just toss out an agreement because you no longer like one of the parties.
One of their goals in the documentary was to diminish Felder's talent and contributions, and make him look like the toxic member.

But they failed to mention:

1) They re-arranged the credit sequence for Hotel California, putting Don's name last, when it was first on the album. The first name belongs to the person who contributed the most to the song.

2) Don didn't just write the intro, the little bit that they said caught their attention, but wrote the musical parts to the whole song, including the bass line

3) They asked him to write a new intro on the spot for the unplugged version. And as depicted on HFO, Don hit it out of the park.

4) They belittled Don's contribution to Victim of Love, saying it was just a progression, with no melody, no lyrics. But know full well that songs and the song writing process start in many ways.

[WalshFan88]

for those of you saying that Don and Glenn were the only ones who kept the name alive. why dont ya look up the facts....
Don and glenn were the only ones keeping the Eagles name alive...

In the 80's

Randy released three albums and had four top forty songs. Toured with his band the Silverados. He was also part of Black Tie and Meisner Rich and Swan bands.

Felder released one solo album
Did the soundtrack to the animated series Galaxy High
Hosted a tv show.
Contributed two songs to the Heavy Metal soundtrack including the title track, and recorded a song "Wild Life" for the Slugger's Wife movie.

---

It failed to mention that Frey's music career stalled by the mid to late 80's. Take away his soundtrack work and his solo albums would be nearly invisible.

His TV series was cancelled after one airing.

Randy's solo work was in no way keeping the Eagles name alive, not even close. So that ends that. Felder's solo album was largely forgettable except Heavy Metal, which was a soundtrack, the very thing you make a comment about Glenn doing. Those songs you talk about Felder doing, with the exception of Heavy Metal, are songs even I, an Eagles hardcore, had forgotten about. They were not equivalent to "You Belong To The City" or "The Heat Is On", not even close. You never saw the Eagles do "Wild Life" or "Bad Girls" in concert. They never even did "Heavy Metal" in concert. They did do "You Belong To The City"!

Frey's solo career, while not as successful as Henley's, was still very successful and far more successful than any other members other than Henley during the period where they were disbanded. It didn't "stall out". He has far more songs that were hits than just soundtracks. He, along with Don Henley, frequently played their own respective Eagles hits in their concerts, and keeping the songs alive. They were they only two that had much of any career outside the Eagles. The others had little success in that time frame, some more than others. Randy, IMO, doesn't count because he'd left the band before they disbanded in 1980.

[WalshFan88]

You guys over-simplified things. Felder is one third owner of Eagles LTD. He is entitled by law. On a more obvious note, without Felder, there would be no One of These NIghts, no Hotel California, no Victim of Love. If those songs were not in existence, the Eagles would be no where near as popular as they are now. ( And yes all of you ready to pounce on your keyboards about "One of These Nights", he wrote the intro, the entire bass line and the solo) Give credit where it's due.
The "Eagles Limited" agreement was a legal, binding agreement, and if you'll watch the documentary, you'll see Henley shrug his shoulders and say something like, "well things change, people move on," in response to the Eagles Limited topic. Well, a judge decided that while people do move on, you can't just toss out an agreement because you no longer like one of the parties.
One of their goals in the documentary was to diminish Felder's talent and contributions, and make him look like the toxic member.

But they failed to mention:

1) They re-arranged the credit sequence for Hotel California, putting Don's name last, when it was first on the album. The first name belongs to the person who contributed the most to the song.

2) Don didn't just write the intro, the little bit that they said caught their attention, but wrote the musical parts to the whole song, including the bass line

3) They asked him to write a new intro on the spot for the unplugged version. And as depicted on HFO, Don hit it out of the park.

4) They belittled Don's contribution to Victim of Love, saying it was just a progression, with no melody, no lyrics. But know full well that songs and the song writing process start in many ways.

.
Eagles LTD ceased to exist once HFO happened, as NKIT said. They redid those contracts. Felder ok'd it, after being given a clear ultimatum. However, he came to resent the deal and so he made it known.

Actually, a judge never did anything with Felder suing Don and Glenn. Instead, they settled out of court just so they could move on with their lives so Felder wouldn't begrudge them anymore. Sadly, Felder still hasn't quite moved on. He has more left to prove, I suppose. But what I don't get, is why did Felder seem to think he was just going to get a call back? As if they would forget about the book and the lawsuit!

I've always given credit to Felder as far as being a great guitarist. But let's not get so biased that we think he was the writer of ALL the musical parts for every song. Hotel California is the only song that could even be close to that being true, and Walsh has said that he did his own solo on the end, and was responsible for the idea that lead to the outro duel at the end. On OOTN, VOL, etc there is still arranging to be done, lyrics to be written. I'd argue that it was the lyrics, that made those songs really successful. You have to have the great music, that's Felder's credit for his part. But I cannot fathom listening to VOL with Felder's "vocals". And if you look at his solo work, he clearly is not a great lyricist. He is a world class guitarist and creator of guitar parts. But he's not a great singer, frontman, arranger, and lyricist. It's just not true. If you put different lyrics to Hotel California, you can't say it would have had the exact same success as it did. Again, I'm not saying he didn't contribute to the Eagles music. But IMO, he did less than Don and Glenn. I personally love the Eagles for the guitar stuff. But the overwhelming majority of people love them for their vocals and their lyrics.

I guarantee you that was not their goal with the HOTE doc. But they weren't going to gloss over Felder's departure or the turmoil he caused and make it seem like it was all rainbows and puppies, either. He was a toxic member. If you watch YouTube, you can find Glenn heavily praising Felder in an interview from the 80s or early 90s (pre-HFO) for his role in the band in the second half of the 1970s. He even said in the doc "for all his talents as a guitar player, he's not a singer". He never bashed Felder's playing. It was about Felder making everything miserable and Felder's need to have equal everything. Thank god they held firm on Henley singing VOL. Felder isn't a good singer. I think he always pushed Glenn and Don's buttons because he wanted what they had and wanted more control. He wasn't content with being a great well-paid player.

1) This has been well discussed. Personally I actually DO think it should read as on the album.

2) He did write the bulk of the music, but he didn't write Walsh's solo. Felder said Walsh also came up with the triad ending. Also Walsh has said that he came up with his solo. It's Walsh's style through and through.

3) This is true, I won't deny this. That doesn't mean that he was as important as Henley or Frey, however. I fail to see how this is significant in any way for justifying Felder as an "equal".

4) Sure, songwriting can start from many things. But without Don's classic vocals, and the lyrics written with the guys and JD Souther, VOL wouldn't be the same, and IMO it was what they did with Felder's music that made this great.

[Ive always been a dreamer]

This thread has gone way off-topic. I don't see an existing thread to that would work for the discussion. so I think I'm going to create a new one and move some of these posts. I was thinking of naming the thread something along the lines of 'Discussion about Felder's role in the band', but I'm open to other suggestions if anyone has any ideas. I don't have time to do this right now, so in the meantime, feel free to continue the discussion here.

[WalshFan88]

This thread has gone way off-topic. I don't see an existing thread to that would work for the discussion. so I think I'm going to create a new thread and move some of these posts. I was thinking of naming the thread something along the lines of 'Discussion about Felder's role in the band', but I'm open to other suggestions if anyone has any ideas. I don't have time to do this right now, so in the meantime, feel free to continue the discussion here.

I would say that name would fit Dreamer.

[edwardd19]

i mean to speak the brutal truth, i am not trying to bash on Henley or Frey, like i said before, im a huge fan of the eagles, if not a die-hard fan. I love the eagles, from bernie to randy, to glenn and tim, i love them all. Despite Felder not being in the band, i still went to go and see the eagles live in concert, feb 8 of this year, and two years ago. Although yes henley and tim and joe were still apart of the band when they performed, its just not the same. If you have Bernie and Felder who are still physically healthy enough to perform, why not have them tour with, now i can understand felder not being a prime option, but atleast have bernie tour, what harm can he do? I just feel like Felder should have been treated more FAIRLY. my opinion may come off as biased, im not sure, but i feel like henley and frey did not treat Felder with the up-most respect that he deserved during the HFO period, or at least approached him correctly, i mean Henley did try and get Felder to play on his tour in the 80s, not once, but contacted him multiple times, in which felder denied his proposal, doesnt that say something?. Okay, he cant sing for his life, but his guitar work is one that is compared to that of Hendrix, Page, and Clapton, which should be enough for them to say "hey you know what, well pay you a little extra." i mean if Hendrix or clapton were in the eagles, would you deny them of a little more money if they asked for it? Even Henley in an interview in 2017 said " Felder is a world-class guitarists, one of the best" nothing more and nothing less and if you think that of someone would paying them a little extra money for their work be such a big deal? i mean if you think of them so highly, then treat them like that, i personally dont see any hate coming off of Henley when speaking about Felder, now do i think Henley would have felder come back to the band? yes i really do, but it would not be the right thing to do, with regards to glenn, bringing your bestfriends "enemy" back into a group, is not the right thing, and is the reason why henley would not have him back. some may be saying well what about joe? shouldnt he deserve more money too? well if you really look at Joes parts in the eagles, i feel like he was constrained by the eagles, I mean i think it is pretty obvious if you have done your research, but Henley did not like joe, because of his character (being wild and crazy) this can be found in multiple interviews, but when you look at joe in the eagles, he is not the same person as he was before, how do you go from singing songs like RMW and funk 49# to some soft ballad like PMAIAR, Joes best work in my opinion is when he did his solo work, even his solo work while he was in the eagles was more popular than his work with the eagles, lifes been good > in the city, anyways this was not about joe,but overall all im saying is i love the eagles, they truly are the best band of all time IMO, Henley and Frey no doubt in my mind are the lennon and mccartney of America, but If you look at felders playing during HFO, he plays the main guitar parts/solo for both Glenn and Henleys songs, (you belong to the city, the boys of summer, dirty laundry, etc even joes). im not trying to argue with anyone, im just trying to defend Felder, after i saw several comments about his concerts and little speeches that he gave during his concerts.

[WalshFan88]

Edwardd19, Joe's work in the Eagles is worthy of as much respect as Felder's.

I don't think the Eagles held him back at all. He did plenty of guitar work on the HC and TLR albums. He wanted to join the band as much as Glenn wanted him in the band. It wasn't like he was prodded.

Rock songs: Life In The Fast Lane (intro and solo), Victim Of Love (solo), In The City (intro and slide solo), The Long Run (slide), Heartache Tonight (slide), Those Shoes (talkbox, solo). Yes, as far as him singing lead, there wasn't a lot of that. But really you had one ballad (Pretty Maids All In A Row) and one rocker (In The City). I don't think it's fair to infer that he had to sing ballads. I think DH and GF greatly respected Joe. And as much as Henley might not want to admit, it gave them some of that bad boy street cred with the rockstars that they didn't have before. Joe was hanging with Belushi, Moon, etc. Henley may have resented it when asked, but deep down I think he liked it. I know that Glenn certainly liked it. But Henley was definitely a bit prudish. The whole thing about drugs in the studio with Glyn Johns and him siding with Glyn told me that he himself could be seen a party pooper. Now I'm sure he was right, but I think drugs were a part of what made that music so great. Certainly with bands like Aerosmith and Zeppelin. I'm not endorsing their use - I'd rather people be alive than die making great music, but I think it's potently obvious that the sex, drugs, and rock and roll lifestyle of the 70s and 80s is what fueled the inspiration for so many great songs then.

But I've heard the whole I prefer Joe solo thing and it really bothers me, a lot actually. Joe was a far better fit for the Eagles than Bernie Leadon. They were a rock band, they just didn't know it until starting around 1975. I'm no BL fan as far as music. I respect him, but his thing isn't mine at all. I prefer the later 70s Eagles. The whole desperado cowboy thing isn't in my vocabulary nor persona. I'm a hard rocker.

As far as the Eagles "changing" Joe. I'm not so sure. I also think that "if you've done your research" is an unnecessary thing to state. I don't think it is that obvious that the Eagles constrained him, Edward. IN fact in the 90s, I think their "constraining him" was probably what saved his life by saying we won't do this unless you agree to go to rehab for awhile. I thank Don and Glenn for doing that. I'd hate to think of losing Joe. I think he needed the Eagles every bit as much as the Eagles needed him. As far as Henley not liking Joe - I think his room trash wore on Don, but I think he also liked what it did for their street cred. I think from what I see, Henley does like Walsh, and I have no reason to doubt that. I know Don wasn't approving of him doing Desperado with Sam Kenison, but that is an isolated incident. I see no reason to believe that Henley resented having Joe in the band. I think if anything, he was just as ready to shed the country sound as Glenn was. I think Henley is glad Joe is a member, even today. I see no signs of resentment there.

You bring up Life's Been Good. Well to me it's clear that the version IN the Eagles is better than the original, and better than him doing it solo. Doing it with the band, brought a lot more to it. I almost never listen to the version on But Seriously Folks. I listen to the version on Eagles Live. That's Life's Been Good. Doing it with the band backing him was a far better song to listen to, to me. I fought for it to stay in the setlist when we'd have debates around here whether or not solo songs should be in the setlist, around the time of the HOTE tour. I personally think that Life's Been Good is clearly better with the Eagles. That's just me.

Even Joe will tell you he preferred being in a band than being solo. And I personally would give up all of my Joe solo albums as long as I could keep HC, TLR, and Live. That's Joe at his best, for my money's worth.

Regarding Bernie, I think he was the one who chose not to participate in this 3.0 version of the "band". I don't think it was a case of not being invited or being shut out. From what I hear, he wasn't interested. I saw him on the HOTE tour. While it was cool to hear him on TIE, I felt that it didn't bring a ton extra having him there. I'm not into TLHTM or Saturday Night. I also much prefer the original arrangements of WW.

As far as Felder's treatment. Let's just agree to disagree. But I wanted to bring up a contradiction you made. You said a few posts ago that "they never had a problem with Henley" or that in the doc they never mentioned Henley as a problem, just Glenn. Something to that effect. But then you say that it should "say something" because Felder turned down Henley when asked to come play with him on his solo tour.

And as far as the money thing. Felder wasn't making chump change! He was more than well taken care of. He was a freakin' rockstar for crying out loud touring with the biggest and best American rock band of all time! If he was getting paid that poorly, I'd totally be on your side on the money thing. The argument isn't about being him not being paid well. It's about him and some others thinking he was an equal to Don and Glenn, which I firmly state again that he was not. He was making great money, money anyone would love to have. He wasn't going to be on the streets in a year after the tour ended. C'mon. I know you like Felder, and I love him as a guitarist. But this wasn't about getting paid fairly for his work. This was about seeing his own importance and contributions as equal to Don and Glenn. It wasn't. So, that settles that.

[chaim]

I won't quote the post I'm replying to, because it's so long and it's impossible to quote a tiny bit with my iPhone, but it's about OOTN. It's weird to say that without Felder there would be no OOTN and then to say that he wrote the intro and the entire bassline. Why are people making the bassline so important in this song - enen to the point that the song wouldn't exist without Felder? Because Felder wrote it? I don't hear people say the same about songs Randy wrote the bassline for. And I didn't hear people praise the OOTN bassline until Felder said he wrote it.

And Felder didn't come uo with the whole intro. Glenn did the harmony guitars.

[chaim]

I disagree with edwardd19 about some things here, but I definitely agree about the HC writer credits. Felder's name should definitely always be first.