Discussion of Eagles Documentary "History of the Eagles"

[Tiffanny Twisted]

wow go to work for the day and look where we are..lol

fp I agree...creedence c learwater revival came to mind too.

Soda ..I also agree...DF was rich but not as rich as DH and GF and in his mind he thought he should be.
I am glad that they are still around for me to go and see..

[OutlawManNJ]

Im not the only one saying that. Sure, people are going to have their own favorite songs, but HC is widely known as the Eagles masterpiece. I remember way back in the 90s....maybe even late 80s I was listening to a Classic Rock Countdown of Rocks greatest songs ever....this was on KROCK in NYC...no small potatoes....and Hotel California came in at #1 beating #2 Stairway to Heaven.

Lyings Eyes, Peacefull easy feeling, Take it easy etc as good as they are would never be put up in a mano a mano fight with Led Zepplins Stairway to heaven! Or Queens Bohemian Rhapsody.

Over the years, The Eagles lost a little of that Top 5 placement and as you can see in this link, HC still comes in at a respectable #20 http://ultimateclassicrock.com/eagle...ic-rock-songs/ And Rolling Stone Magazine places HC at #49 of the top 500 songs of all time.

[Freypower]

Im not the only one saying that. Sure, people are going to have their own favorite songs, but HC is widely known as the Eagles masterpiece. I remember way back in the 90s....maybe even late 80s I was listening to a Classic Rock Countdown of Rocks greatest songs ever....this was on KROCK in NYC...no small potatoes....and Hotel California came in at #1 beating #2 Stairway to Heaven.

Lyings Eyes, Peacefull easy feeling, Take it easy etc as good as they are would never be put up in a mano a mano fight with Led Zepplins Stairway to heaven! Or Queens Bohemian Rhapsody.

Over the years, The Eagles lost a little of that Top 5 placement and as you can see in this link, HC still comes in at a respectable #20 http://ultimateclassicrock.com/eagle...ic-rock-songs/ And Rolling Stone Magazine places HC at #49 of the top 500 songs of all time.

I think you have missed both my & Soda's point.

HC may be a masterpiece but it is not compulsory for everybody to have it as their favourite Eagles song. Just constantly repeating 'it's a masterpiece' is not going to change that.

I have no intention of putting LE & PEF up against BR & Stairway. BR & Stairway are more important to me than those songs. Stairway, at least, is more important to me than HC is.

[Prettymaid]

I totally understand what OM is trying to say, even if some disagree. HC is the Eagles iconic song, and I would guess if you polled people, that's what they would say. Not saying I have a dog in the Felder fight, though.

[lizzyplays]

Ok, now that I've read all the "reviews" (and I use that term lightly), I'm going to go watch my recordings! Been gone over the weekend, so just now getting home to see it.

[Ive always been a dreamer]

I also have to agree that Hotel California is the band's most iconic song, although I think Take It Easy is a very close second. That doesn't mean there aren't lots of other great ones, but HC is the song that most people associate with the band.

You know Topkat – if you are going to try to dominate discussions with your sometimes over-zealous defense, you should at least try to get your facts straight, as HD pointed out earlier. I was on my high school and college debate teams and one of the things they always taught us is that anyone can argue anything with flawed logic, misinformation, or inaccurate facts … it’s takes more effort to support your arguments with rational and accurate facts, but it sure does come across as a lot more credible.

The only thing for Henley & Frey was that THEY MAKE MILLIONS MORE than the others. They had a contract & then they wanted to change it & pay him less. Do I feel sorry for him? Well, he got fired, so yeah, I guess I do, but there must have been some validity to his lawsuit since he was awarded millions more. Judges don't hand over millions of dollars for no reason.

For the record in the above post, the lawsuit was settled out of court. That means the parties agreed to the amount of money to be awarded, not a judge or jury.

Anything said about Glenn, is shot down & passed off as defending DF...Well it's not all about that incident....It was about Bernie, & Randy & other things he said. You know I didn't hear Henley speak badly about anyone last night. He mostly spoke about himself, & his feelings. I can respect that & thought he was getting his points made without badmouthing others in the band.

Here is another example of misleading information. The impression that I have gotten both before and during the documentary is that there Don Henley feels pretty much the same way as Glenn regarding Felder. He was certainly on board with the firing and has also made some pretty harsh comments regarding the matter.

[steve_e_dee]

Wow... Just took me an hour to read up on everything I wrote 3 days ago!!

Forgive me for not posting quotes from others (just too tired and lazy tonight), but did want to continue to the great discussion...

1. Hotel California. Not to slam any of the other countless songs I (or all of us) love from the band, but there should be no question what song made this band go from stars to mega stars. Again, too lazy to do so, but I'd bet that yearly album sales since Hotel California would dwarf anything pre-HC. Sure, there are other songs on the album (not one bad song, IMO), but its naive to think it would be for anything other than the title cut. Which by the way, isn't even my fav song on the album (which would be "The Last Resort"). We all have our favorites, or even ones we think are hits (which I don't question at all)... but when everything is on the table, nothing comes remotely close to HC. Nothing.

In regards to Felder's involvement/contribution, I haven't read anywhere that he deserves MORE credit than Henley, etc...just that he deserves as much credit for it as the others. I'm a huge fan of lyrics (no one beats Jackson Browne, IMO) but I do know writing words is no more important than writing the music. We all associate more with the words, cause we understand/identify that... but the music written is every bit as important. Again, I think its very naive to think otherwise. Felder's contributions to that song, and their leap to mega-stardom cannot be ignored. It isn't greater... but has just as much impact. Sorry, it just has.

2. The firing/lawsuit (sorry to add to this). I've read a bunch about who deserves what/who's the bigger jerk, etc etc... and I really think its a bit of a tossup. But there are a couple things that cannot be disputed.

These are facts ----
A - It's Frey's band. He can do whatever he wants to.
B - It was Frey, along with the others, that agreed to form the legally binding Eagles LTD... which gave the 5 members "equal" share.
C - Two of the members disbanded Eagles LTD, and purposely left out the remaining 3rd member, even though he was still in the band.
D - Felder brought suit against the Eagles (not the other way around), and it was settled out of court.

There's an old saying... "You made your bed, now sleep in it". These guys made an agreement, and anything pre-HFO should be based on that. Anything after that, then I think there is validity to Frey and Henley wanting more. I really think (especially after watching Frey discuss this) its a pretty simple case... it was settled out of court because Felder had an open and shut case, and Frey/Henley are pissed about it. Eagles LTD gave members equal share, and two of them tried to screw the 3rd, truth be told. They settled cause they didn't have a chance to win. That's just common sense.

As for Frey, people have posted he has the blood on his hands cause he is the leader and has to "do the deed". Yes, that's true... but the 3 that left the band were primarily because of not getting along with Frey, not anyone else. They all had issues with him. Yes, even Henley has too. In Felder's book, he repeated wrote about getting along quite well with Henley, even when times were rough. It's true Frey said in the film that could have handled things differently pre-1980. I just don't think he's gotten much better, based on his actions. Its just a pattern that hasn't changed much.

3. The Filmmakers. I've now watch the docu a couple of times, and have noticed a few more things. I'm now of the belief (soundly so, I might add) that the filmmakers didn't have the free reign they say they had. They may have in the beginning, but everything in the middle and the end... no way. As it goes more and more, it feels less documentary...and more celebratory. The 2nd part mostly feels like an infomercial (minus the Walsh drinking). It just felt rehearsed. Controlled. It just feels like there is someone over someone's shoulder saying, "show this, don't show that; spend more time on this, less time on that, etc). Example -- plenty of articles talking about how LROOE was made -- the band was rarely in the studio at the same time. Songs/arrangements were emailed back and forth and recorded separately.

As I said in my 1st post, I really do like the film...but I think reading between the lines really reveals things about them more than we see on the screen. Sure, it's conjecture, but with all we've read over the years, it's a bit easier to connect the dots.

If you think I'm bashing Frey and putting Felder on a pedestal, that's hardly the case. Felder is just as guilty and as much of a buffoon. I listened to him speak the Grammy museum a couple of months ago, and rolled my eyes more than once. He's as greedy as the others. I just strongly disagree when the importance of his role in the band is diminished.


Steve

[OutlawManNJ]

Excellent post Steve.

I agree too that people reading this have to undertand we r all eagles fans and we r not trying to knock frey just trying to get down to the heart of the matter (pun intended).

I also on first viewing thought especially the frey parts on the film a little rehearsed maybe it was the way he delivered the lines. I first thought this when he said "maybe we should start from the begining".

Ithink theost disturbing part of the film was henly calling felder Mr Felder lol.

The film is great but i fear that the filmmakers werent eagles fans so i feel they could have dug further. They could have asked frey dont you think u r shortchanging the guy that wrote the music to the song that most gives the eagles respect? I would like to hear him anser that.

[tjrrockandrollmaster]

Excellent documentary. The first two hours of the thing was awesome. Why don't they release a CD/DVD of the Largo, MD 1977 shows (I'd buy it in a flash).

My take was Don Henley became the voice of the band and he had the most successful solo career (Glenn's success waned after 1985 while Henley got more and more successful with each album). Don Felder my heart felt for him, he didn't know that the solo successes of Henley and Frey would cause them to take control of the band during the reunion. Then again I didn't know Randy Meisner suffered from stage fright during the Hotel California tour and had to sing "Take It to the Limit" night after night which led to his firing (Frey said he quit, he was fired from the band). Bernie Leadon had every right to leave due to change in direction as he didn't want to rock out yet a compilation album from the time Leadon was in the band became the best selling album in US history.

Frey fell out with Glyn Johns over musical direction, then Bernie Leadon over same thing, then Randy Meisner over Meisner's anxiety and stagefright and then Don Felder over politics and money.

[tjrrockandrollmaster]

Wow... Just took me an hour to read up on everything I wrote 3 days ago!!

Forgive me for not posting quotes from others (just too tired and lazy tonight), but did want to continue to the great discussion...

1. Hotel California. Not to slam any of the other countless songs I (or all of us) love from the band, but there should be no question what song made this band go from stars to mega stars. Again, too lazy to do so, but I'd bet that yearly album sales since Hotel California would dwarf anything pre-HC. Sure, there are other songs on the album (not one bad song, IMO), but its naive to think it would be for anything other than the title cut. Which by the way, isn't even my fav song on the album (which would be "The Last Resort"). We all have our favorites, or even ones we think are hits (which I don't question at all)... but when everything is on the table, nothing comes remotely close to HC. Nothing.

In regards to Felder's involvement/contribution, I haven't read anywhere that he deserves MORE credit than Henley, etc...just that he deserves as much credit for it as the others. I'm a huge fan of lyrics (no one beats Jackson Browne, IMO) but I do know writing words is no more important than writing the music. We all associate more with the words, cause we understand/identify that... but the music written is every bit as important. Again, I think its very naive to think otherwise. Felder's contributions to that song, and their leap to mega-stardom cannot be ignored. It isn't greater... but has just as much impact. Sorry, it just has.

2. The firing/lawsuit (sorry to add to this). I've read a bunch about who deserves what/who's the bigger jerk, etc etc... and I really think its a bit of a tossup. But there are a couple things that cannot be disputed.

These are facts ----
A - It's Frey's band. He can do whatever he wants to.
B - It was Frey, along with the others, that agreed to form the legally binding Eagles LTD... which gave the 5 members "equal" share.
C - Two of the members disbanded Eagles LTD, and purposely left out the remaining 3rd member, even though he was still in the band.
D - Felder brought suit against the Eagles (not the other way around), and it was settled out of court.

There's an old saying... "You made your bed, now sleep in it". These guys made an agreement, and anything pre-HFO should be based on that. Anything after that, then I think there is validity to Frey and Henley wanting more. I really think (especially after watching Frey discuss this) its a pretty simple case... it was settled out of court because Felder had an open and shut case, and Frey/Henley are pissed about it. Eagles LTD gave members equal share, and two of them tried to screw the 3rd, truth be told. They settled cause they didn't have a chance to win. That's just common sense.

As for Frey, people have posted he has the blood on his hands cause he is the leader and has to "do the deed". Yes, that's true... but the 3 that left the band were primarily because of not getting along with Frey, not anyone else. They all had issues with him. Yes, even Henley has too. In Felder's book, he repeated wrote about getting along quite well with Henley, even when times were rough. It's true Frey said in the film that could have handled things differently pre-1980. I just don't think he's gotten much better, based on his actions. Its just a pattern that hasn't changed much.

3. The Filmmakers. I've now watch the docu a couple of times, and have noticed a few more things. I'm now of the belief (soundly so, I might add) that the filmmakers didn't have the free reign they say they had. They may have in the beginning, but everything in the middle and the end... no way. As it goes more and more, it feels less documentary...and more celebratory. The 2nd part mostly feels like an infomercial (minus the Walsh drinking). It just felt rehearsed. Controlled. It just feels like there is someone over someone's shoulder saying, "show this, don't show that; spend more time on this, less time on that, etc). Example -- plenty of articles talking about how LROOE was made -- the band was rarely in the studio at the same time. Songs/arrangements were emailed back and forth and recorded separately.

As I said in my 1st post, I really do like the film...but I think reading between the lines really reveals things about them more than we see on the screen. Sure, it's conjecture, but with all we've read over the years, it's a bit easier to connect the dots.

If you think I'm bashing Frey and putting Felder on a pedestal, that's hardly the case. Felder is just as guilty and as much of a buffoon. I listened to him speak the Grammy museum a couple of months ago, and rolled my eyes more than once. He's as greedy as the others. I just strongly disagree when the importance of his role in the band is diminished.


Steve

Well put.

The documentary reminded me of the Pink Floyd saga which saw David Gilmour and Nick Mason inherit the Floyd name once Roger Waters decided to leave once they refused to overthrow manager Steve O'Rourke (his death was the end of Pink Floyd in 2003). Roger orchestrated Rick Wright's reduced role for Animals and then throwing him out during The Wall, fell out with Storm Thorgerson over credit on the Animals sleeve, refusing to let Gilmour write and produce The Final Cut. Then when Roger quit, first thing Gilmour and Mason did was rehire Rick Wright and carried on to huge success whilst Waters floundered in his solo career. Then after the lawsuit was settled and Roger got the rights and stage show bits for Animals and The Wall (sans Gilmour's tunes and Gilmour played Another Brick II and Hey You without Roger) and The Final Cut while the other three kept the Floyd banner.

I remember watching the Top 3 Tours of 1994 and #3 was The Eagles, #2 was Pink Floyd and #1 was The Rolling Stones. Don Henley, David Gilmour and Ron Wood were interviewed and I said "Henley is seen as the most smug musician in rock (though I always liked him and still do), Gilmour the laid back and quiet gentleman (my hero) and Wood the abusive drunk lush (replacing Mick Taylor was blasphemous)".